Nikkormat FT3 vs early Minolta SRT102 which is better?

[xkaes]

Interesting. So no mods needed. Thats awesome! Is it possible someone installed a diode previous to you acquiring the camera?

My SRT is unmodified, but don't take my word for it. Your camera, for some unknown reason might be different.

Also, I only read a gray card. The readings might be different under different metering situations, different batteries, different temperatures, etc. -- I can't test them all.

Like I said, just compare your meter's reading to the sunny f-16 rule. That's pretty simple. If your camera is "close enough" to what you should get -- Fuhgeddaboudit

 

[GaryFlorida]

My SRT is unmodified, but don't take my word for it. Your camera, for some unknown reason might be different.

Also, I only read a gray card. The readings might be different under different metering situations, different batteries, different temperatures, etc. -- I can't test them all.

Like I said, just compare your meter's reading to the sunny f-16 rule. That's pretty simple. If your camera is "close enough" to what you should get -- Fuhgeddaboudit

The SRT meter agrees with my Nikon FM and FT3, it only slightly disagrees with the Nikon FM

 

[GaryFlorida]

and this lens play cant be normal. Theres no way Minolta could be fine with ANY play in the lens to camera mount. Do any of you with SRTs have zero play in the lens to body ? Anybody bought one new and recall it had play from the get go? When I say play, Im talking about sloppiness, wigglyness, looseness etc. Any Minolta SRT repair gurus on here, it would be great to chime in on this important matter. I am looking for a mechanic to do a CLA btw. Thanks.

 

[xkaes]

Like I said, I'm not holding your camera.

I just checked with several of my Minolta cameras -- XK, XG-1, SRT100, SRT101 & SRT102 -- and several lenses. Some camera-lens combinations have no rotational "play" while other combinations have up to 1mm of "play". Most are in between. My Rokkor-X 40-80mm f2.8 on my XK rotates about 1mm. I wouldn't call it "sloppiness, wigglyness, looseness", but maybe you would. They all work fine. Since you're getting a CLA anyway -- for some reason -- the service can check it out. At least you can tell them they don't need to check the meter -- maybe you should bring in the Nikon FM too!

 

[MattKing]

If you are going to check function with a different battery, you need to do so at a reasonably wide range of light levels, and a reasonably wide range of discharge status' of the battery.
Battery incompatibility often results in a lack of linearity, even if the incompatible battery works correctly in some circumstances.
The wrong battery can give you results similar to having a speedometer in a car that is set up wrongly. The correct speed in some circumstances, and speeding tickets in others.

 

[fstop]

If you are going to check function with a different battery, you need to do so at a reasonably wide range of light levels, and a reasonably wide range of discharge status' of the battery.
Battery incompatibility often results in a lack of linearity, even if the incompatible battery works correctly in some circumstances.
The wrong battery can give you results similar to having a speedometer in a car that is set up wrongly. The correct speed in some circumstances, and speeding tickets in others.

Maybe I should get a vanity plate that says "SRT 102" so my camera can get a speeding ticket.

 

[Chan Tran]

Interesting. So no mods needed. Thats awesome! Is it possible someone installed a diode previous to you acquiring the camera?

I wouldn't recommend any mod nor using expensive substitute like Wein cell, Zin cell etc... Just use the alkaline. If it not good then simply don't use the meter.

 

[fstop]

I wouldn't recommend any mod nor using expensive substitute like Wein cell, Zin cell etc... Just use the alkaline. If it not good then simply don't use the meter.

I agree, I tried Wein cells. They don't last long.

 

[GaryFlorida]

Whats wrong with the diode mod?

 

[Chan Tran]

Whats wrong with the diode mod?

The diode mod depends on the battery voltage to be a constant 1.5V which it's not.

 

[GaryFlorida]

The diode mod depends on the battery voltage to be a constant 1.5V which it's not.

My understanding from the posts above is that the diode allows no more than 1.35v no matter if its a fresh 1.5 or not. Am i wrong?

 

[Chan Tran]

My understanding from the posts above is that the diode allows no more than 1.35v no matter if its a fresh 1.5 or not. Am i wrong?

If the battery is 1.55V or less then the output voltage would not be more than 1.35V. But it's not 1.35V. When the silver oxide battery is fresh the voltage is 1.55V and the output is 1.35V. When it runs down a bit it's 1.5V and the output is 1.3V and when it run down further the voltage is going to get lower and and the output voltage is lower. The meter that depends on a constant 1.35V to function correctly won't maintain its accuracy when the voltage drops. The mercury battery was used not because of the 1.35V. They can make the circuit to function at higher voltage. What they need was the fact that the mercury battery voltage stays at 1.35V for almost all of its useful life. There is no other kind of battery that can do that except with a regulator. The diode won't do it.

 

[GaryFlorida]

If the battery is 1.55V or less then the output voltage would not be more than 1.35V. But it's not 1.35V. When the silver oxide battery is fresh the voltage is 1.55V and the output is 1.35V. When it runs down a bit it's 1.5V and the output is 1.3V and when it run down further the voltage is going to get lower and and the output voltage is lower. The meter that depends on a constant 1.35V to function correctly won't maintain its accuracy when the voltage drops. The mercury battery was used not because of the 1.35V. They can make the circuit to function at higher voltage. What they need was the fact that the mercury battery voltage stays at 1.35V for almost all of its useful life. There is no other kind of battery that can do that except with a regulator. The diode won't do it.

I see. I misunderstood. I thought the Diode limited voltage to 1.35v not reduced whatever voltage by .15v. Wouldnt the same problem exist with cameras that take 1.5v batteries? The battery voltage gets lower and lower. I mean thats what the bat test mode is for. To see if the needle still goes in the black box. If it doesnt, just replace the battery. Or do those cameras work accurately within a range of voltage whereas the SRT only works properly with exactly 1.35v? I wish there was something that could be soldered in that acts as a limiter like in audio. A high limit of 1.35v, then you could use a 1.5 and the voltage would stay constant at 1.35v until the 1.5v gets run down to 1.35. That could take a while and would provide good longevity. What do you think ? is there any such high voltage limiter component that could be soldered in line?

 

[Chan Tran]

I see. I misunderstood. I thought the Diode limited voltage to 1.35v not reduced whatever voltage by .15v. Wouldnt the same problem exist with cameras that take 1.5v batteries? The battery voltage gets lower and lower. I mean thats what the bat test mode is for. To see if the needle still goes in the black box. If it doesnt, just replace the battery. Or do those cameras work accurately within a range of voltage whereas the SRT only works properly with exactly 1.35v? I wish there was something that could be soldered in that acts as a limiter like in audio. A high limit of 1.35v, then you could use a 1.5 and the voltage would stay constant at 1.35v until the 1.5v gets run down to 1.35. That could take a while and would provide good longevity. What do you think ? is there any such high voltage limiter component that could be soldered in line?

Some camera like the SRT uses the battery voltage as a reference and thus it has to be the same all the time. Others like the Nikon F3 for example would work with battery voltage of 3V to 2.4V without affecting the metering. The F3 would quit working when the battery voltage is below 2.4V.

 

[fstop]

I see. I misunderstood. I thought the Diode limited voltage to 1.35v not reduced whatever voltage by .15v. Wouldnt the same problem exist with cameras that take 1.5v batteries? The battery voltage gets lower and lower. I mean thats what the bat test mode is for. To see if the needle still goes in the black box. If it doesnt, just replace the battery. Or do those cameras work accurately within a range of voltage whereas the SRT only works properly with exactly 1.35v? I wish there was something that could be soldered in that acts as a limiter like in audio. A high limit of 1.35v, then you could use a 1.5 and the voltage would stay constant at 1.35v until the 1.5v gets run down to 1.35. That could take a while and would provide good longevity. What do you think ? is there any such high voltage limiter component that could be soldered in line?

That would take a more complicated circuit than a simple diode and space considerations make it a problem.Even then its not an ideal solution.

Mercury battery replacement

 

[GaryFlorida]

Its only .15v difference? Does it really matter? And so long as the meter test shows in the black box isnt thar proof that the camera is ok with the supplied voltage of the 1.5?

 

[AnselMortensen]

You can avoid the battery issues by getting a Nikkormat FT3.

 

[GaryFlorida]

You can avoid the battery issues by getting a Nikkormat FT3.

I have one. I love it. I would say its a better camera but Minolta lenses.. they are special. Even though they are both "match needle", I like the Minolta configuration better. The needle position is the same no matter what the fstop and speed setting is. You match a little circle with the meter needle wherever the needle goes. On the FT3, the needle position depends on what fstop and speed the camrera is set to. If the exposure is right, the needle will be in the middle of a scale. I prefer the minolta configuraton better.

 

[Chan Tran]

Its only .15v difference? Does it really matter? And so long as the meter test shows in the black box isnt thar proof that the camera is ok with the supplied voltage of the 1.5?

There is no harm to the camera at all but the meter can read differently.

 

[GaryFlorida]

but your gray card test showed no difference. right?

 

[xkaes]

As I wrote in Post #76:

"I only read a gray card. The readings might be different under different metering situations, different batteries, different temperatures, etc. -- I can't test them all.

Like I said, just compare your meter's reading to the sunny f-16 rule. That's pretty simple. If your camera is "close enough" to what you should get -- Fuhgeddaboudit"

You said the SRT matches your other cameras. So what's to worry about?

 

[GaryFlorida]

As I wrote in Post #76:

"I only read a gray card. The readings might be different under different metering situations, different batteries, different temperatures, etc. -- I can't test them all.

Like I said, just compare your meter's reading to the sunny f-16 rule. That's pretty simple. If your camera is "close enough" to what you should get -- Fuhgeddaboudit"

You said the SRT matches your other cameras. So what's to worry about?

Someone said it might match my other cameras like even a broken clock is right twice a day. Just dont want a false sense of certainty especially with so many in there warning that a 1.5v battery that loses voltage over its life will not make the meter work as designed. Should I put the diode in or not? Should I source a genuine mercury battery? Should I carry a light meter? Should I carry my Nikon FE to meter? Because Film is getting expensive, I hate to waste it because the meter is unpredictable or always changing. and what about these adapters that have some kind of resistor in them or something.. are they any good?

 

[GaryFlorida]

I see online there are some russian batteries that claim to be the only mercury batteries made anymore. Have any of you tried these? https://mercurycell.org/

 

[Chan Tran]

Someone said it might match my other cameras like even a broken clock is right twice a day. Just dont want a false sense of certainty especially with so many in there warning that a 1.5v battery that loses voltage over its life will not make the meter work as designed. Should I put the diode in or not? Should I source a genuine mercury battery? Should I carry a light meter? Should I carry my Nikon FE to meter? Because Film is getting expensive, I hate to waste it because the meter is unpredictable or always changing. and what about these adapters that have some kind of resistor in them or something.. are they any good?

The diode will not make the voltage constant so my answer is no. I like the idea of sourcing genuine mercury battery. Before the war started there is a guy in Russia selling mercury batteries.

 

[xkaes]

Someone said it might match my other cameras like even a broken clock is right twice a day. Just dont want a false sense of certainty especially with so many in there warning that a 1.5v battery that loses voltage over its life will not make the meter work as designed. Should I put the diode in or not? Should I source a genuine mercury battery? Should I carry a light meter? Should I carry my Nikon FE to meter? Because Film is getting expensive, I hate to waste it because the meter is unpredictable or always changing. and what about these adapters that have some kind of resistor in them or something.. are they any good?

As I suggested before, if you are that worried about it, meter several completely different scenes to your heart's content with both the SRT and the FE -- using the same focal length lens, of course. Be aware that the SRT metering system is CDC (Contrast Light Compensating) and the FE is center-weighted, so expect some slight differences -- you won't get that on a gray card because everything is the same.

Another approach is to meter a white wall in bright light, medium light, and dim light. That too will eliminate the metering system differences as a factor.

Maybe that will help you sleep better at night. If not, try some melatonin.