Nikkormat ELW vs Nikon FE

[GaryFlorida]

The Nikkormat ELW seems so much like a Nikon FE. The differences I can see are that the FE has AI feature, heavier and has mirror lock up. Can you think of anything else?

 

[mweintraub]

The ELW will meter non-AI lenses at full aperture, but the FE (when you use non-AI lenses) will only meter when you stop down (aka, "stop down metering").

So, if you will use mostly non-AI lenses, I'd get ELW.

 

[John_Nikon_F]

The ELw is very similar. It, however, uses CdS cells, instead of the SPD cells used in the FE and the EL2. The FE is lighter, has the AI coupling, and no mirror lockup. It also uses the MD-12 without modification, whereas an ELw or EL2 will need to have the bottom shutter release button and the contacts added to work properly with a MD-11 or MD-12. Apparently, it can be done, which was news to me.

If you don't need full compatibility with pre-AI lenses, but do want the mirror lockup, the EL2 is a good choice. Not just because of the meter cells, but also because it uses a flex circuit like the FE, instead of hardwired components like the EL and Elw.

-J

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

The differences I can see are that the FE has AI feature, heavier and has mirror lock up.

That is not right: the FE is an AI camera, that is right, but it is lighter and has a pseudo mirror lock-up on the self-timer.
The Nikkormat EL/ELW/Nikon EL2 have a true mirror lock-up as well as the pseudo one on the self-timer.
The ELW/EL2 have connections for a winder, the AW-1 which is a relative poor affair. It isn't very reliable due to having some plastic gears. Some have had the gears changed to something more durable.
All the EL/ELW/EL2 use the same 6V 4SR44 silver battery or the PX27 lithium.
The EL/ELW have CDS cells. The EL2 has the same SPD cells as the FE.

The FE adds an ADR window to the viewfinder. Otherwise the viewfinder is identical apart an extra position for the transparent pointer, a M when the shutter dial is on the M90 (mechanical 1/90th sec). This M90 is lacking on the EL series, although without batteries any shutter speed on the dial apart B will give you the same 1/90th sec mechanical. The FE just makes it easier.
Also easier is the battery checker being a small dial on the FE instead of a button that needs to be pressed very hard.
The FE also has a small contact on the hot shoe for dedicated Nikon flashes: it shows the flash ready light on the top of the viewfinder as well as locking the shutter at 1/90th when in Auto. That last feature I don't particularly like as I do daylight balanced flash. With the FE I have to use Manual speeds below the max sync of 1/125th.
The FE has interchangeable focusing screens, none of the EL series have a user replaceable screen.
The FE also adds a double exposure lever.
The FE can use a faster winder, the MD-11/12 p to 3.5fps instead of the 2fps of the AW-1 on the ELW/EL2.

In summary: the FE is a compact version of the EL2 having pretty much the same features.

Between the ELW and the FE, there is another issue: Pre-AI lenses or AI? That depends of how many of each you have. While most of AI Nikkor lenses still have the "rabbit ears", the Pre-AI aren't exactly easy to become AI'd. It is easier to add the fork to an AI lenses than it is to add the AI ridge.

Finally my personal choice: I had once both the EL2 and the FE. I sold both. Later I had a change of heart and actually bought back the same EL2. It is heavier, but there was something about it that made me want to use it again.

 

[GaryFlorida]

That is not right: the FE is an AI camera, that is right, but it is lighter and has a pseudo mirror lock-up on the self-timer.
The Nikkormat EL/ELW/Nikon EL2 have a true mirror lock-up as well as the pseudo one on the self-timer.
The ELW/EL2 have connections for a winder, the AW-1 which is a relative poor affair. It isn't very reliable due to having some plastic gears. Some have had the gears changed to something more durable.
All the EL/ELW/EL2 use the same 6V 4SR44 silver battery or the PX27 lithium.
The EL/ELW have CDS cells. The EL2 has the same SPD cells as the FE.

The FE adds an ADR window to the viewfinder. Otherwise the viewfinder is identical apart an extra position for the transparent pointer, a M when the shutter dial is on the M90 (mechanical 1/90th sec). This M90 is lacking on the EL series, although without batteries any shutter speed on the dial apart B will give you the same 1/90th sec mechanical. The FE just makes it easier.
Also easier is the battery checker being a small dial on the FE instead of a button that needs to be pressed very hard.
The FE also has a small contact on the hot shoe for dedicated Nikon flashes: it shows the flash ready light on the top of the viewfinder as well as locking the shutter at 1/90th when in Auto. That last feature I don't particularly like as I do daylight balanced flash. With the FE I have to use Manual speeds below the max sync of 1/125th.
The FE has interchangeable focusing screens, none of the EL series have a user replaceable screen.
The FE also adds a double exposure lever.
The FE can use a faster winder, the MD-11/12 p to 3.5fps instead of the 2fps of the AW-1 on the ELW/EL2.

In summary: the FE is a compact version of the EL2 having pretty much the same features.

Between the ELW and the FE, there is another issue: Pre-AI lenses or AI? That depends of how many of each you have. While most of AI Nikkor lenses still have the "rabbit ears", the Pre-AI aren't exactly easy to become AI'd. It is easier to add the fork to an AI lenses than it is to add the AI ridge.

Finally my personal choice: I had once both the EL2 and the FE. I sold both. Later I had a change of heart and actually bought back the same EL2. It is heavier, but there was something about it that made me want to use it again.

Nice write up Ricardo. thanks to all who showed interest in my thread

 

[GaryFlorida]

The ELw is very similar. It, however, uses CdS cells, instead of the SPD cells used in the FE and the EL2. The FE is lighter, has the AI coupling, and no mirror lockup. It also uses the MD-12 without modification, whereas an ELw or EL2 will need to have the bottom shutter release button and the contacts added to work properly with a MD-11 or MD-12. Apparently, it can be done, which was news to me.

If you don't need full compatibility with pre-AI lenses, but do want the mirror lockup, the EL2 is a good choice. Not just because of the meter cells, but also because it uses a flex circuit like the FE, instead of hardwired components like the EL and Elw.

-J

what is a flex circuit and what is the advantage over hardwired components? How to SPD cells compare to CdS cells? What cells does the FM have?

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

The advantage of a flex circuit is that bodies can be made smaller. The disadvantage is that if they fail, you can say "sayonara", unless you know of a spare part.
SPD is what is used to this day AFAIK in all modern cameras. It has a faster response time than CDS cells.
The FM had 2 GDP Gallium cells which are even faster and very sensitive. It is one of only 2 models that I know to have such cells. The other one is the Pentax MX.

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

but also because it uses a flex circuit like the FE, instead of hardwired components like the EL and Elw.

I didn't know that. I had to check and this is in the Nikon site: http://imaging.nikon.com/history/chronicle/cousins08-e/

 

[Xmas]

The flex circuits reduce manufacture time.
They make any camera repair more 'interesting' eg too much flex fatigued printed circuit.
An invention of the devil...

 

[GaryFlorida]

The flex circuits reduce manufacture time.
They make any camera repair more 'interesting' eg too much flex fatigued printed circuit.
An invention of the devil...

so it is not an advantage but a liability. +1 for the old school.

It doesnt matter I guess. It would be nice to have a meter 1 to 18. Both the FM and EL do that but with different cells. I wonder what cells the F2 with the led finder has. I think it goes down to -3 EV. I wonder if its possible to transplant the FM cells to the FT3 or from the hardwired EL? We used to swap lots of parts when we hot rodded cars back in the day. Brakes from one car, engine from another, rear end from still another. Good times.

 

[Xmas]

Between the ELW and the FE, there is another issue: Pre-AI lenses or AI? That depends of how many of each you have. While most of AI Nikkor lenses still have the "rabbit ears", the Pre-AI aren't exactly easy to become AI'd. It is easier to add the fork to an AI lenses than it is to add the AI ridge.
.

Most people will need to ship either type of lens to a service centre.

NOS (post AI) ears are available from Grays in the UK. The post AI ears have cut outs for the aperture scale illumination.

Some people merely file a pre AI aperture ring with nail file - in situ. Normally looks bad & resale value down, don't ask about debris.

With a micro drill and tap set you might be able to fit rabbits ears in situ easily to most late lenses but some E series lenses will need added plastic as their nub valleys are in wrong place...

If stop down metering is possible for lenses without ears I'd recommend that instead.

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

If stop down metering is possible for lenses without ears I'd recommend that instead.

It is, both Pre-AI and AI bodies. Not really a problem, just convenience.
That's why I said above to Gary that depends on how many AI lenses he has.
Many AF Nikkors came with dimples on the aperture ring to indicate where to drill holes.

 

[GaryFlorida]

I have 8 AI lenses I believe and 2 non AI lenses of duplicate focal lengths.

 

[Xmas]

The AI lenses should be ok the later series E and some post series E AIs omit the ears on the aperture ring at /5.6.

 

[John_Nikon_F]

Then, I'd go for an EL2 or an FE. Most repair shops I've talked to won't touch the EL or the ELw, if electronic faults are mentioned. I could see why, when I parted out an EL that had dead meter cells. Spaghetti. My current EL works fine, so, as long as it keeps truckin', I'll keep shooting with it.

-J