Night Photography

lilmsmaggie · Sep 28, 2009

Not sure where else to post this question, so I thought I'd try it here. I'd like to do some night photography using B&W film. I'm currently shooting Delta 400 for class assignments, although, I think the instructor will allow a slower speed film for night photography. We'll probably have a night shooting assignment and I wanted to get a jump on things.

Trouble is, there's nothing in the reading that discusses shooting at night in any detail. Are there any reference materials I can refer to, or discussion groups where I can get more info?

Andy K · Sep 28, 2009

Andrew Sanderson's 'Night Photography'. ISBN 1 902538 12 9.

Should tell you everything you need to know.

calceman · Sep 28, 2009

http://www.lostamerica.com/technique.html

http://www.thenocturnes.com/resources.html

There's more if you spend some time searching.

lilmsmaggie · Sep 28, 2009

Thanks for the info -- is there a APUG night photography discussion group?

Mike Wilde · Sep 28, 2009

Read the tech guide for the film for reciprocity failure information. Pinhole photo sites are also a good giude for long exposure, albeit in thier ilk it is usually found by day.

Google the 'Ultimate Exposure Guide' by Fred Parker. Very handy for night photo work, as well as all sorts fo exposyre guidelines when metering is not an option at hand.

AmandaTom · Sep 28, 2009

I shoot a lot at night on b&w film. I use Fuji Acros 100, which has no reciprocity failure for exposures under 2 minutes. I shoot at f/8 with the lens set on infinity. With my camera I know that everything from about 15 feet out to infinity is in focus so I use the viewfinder for composition--provided I can see anything! Initially I would do some bracketing to see what you like. A shot with no moon and virtually no ambient light can take 3 or more hours whereas a street scene with light coming out windows and from streetlights may take 1 second. Most of what I do is in the 15 seconds- 20 minutes range. This one was f/8 for 5 seconds:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/amandatomlin/2473625767/in/set-72157607032102794/

glbeas · Sep 28, 2009

Since Acros has such good reciprocity characteristics I would recommend trying that to maximize your success with this project.

lilmsmaggie · Sep 28, 2009

glbeas said:
Since Acros has such good reciprocity characteristics I would recommend trying that to maximize your success with this project.

I may have to substitute Ilford Delta 100 for Fuji unless I do this on my own for experimentation. I'll have to check the course syllabus to see if Fuji is acceptable and when a Night shot comes up. But I should probably try the Fuji just for the heck of it.

I did ask the instructor if we could use a particular a particular film based on what the lighting conditions dictated. The response was that by using the same film, everyone more less gets off on the same footing.

There was a kid that bought Long's brand ISO 400 film that required C-41 processing. We're using D-76, so he had to go back out and buy different film.

Thanks again.

AmandaTom · Sep 28, 2009

Delta is not a direct substitute for Acros. That is the thrill and frustration of night photography--the characteristics of the film change completely for most films once your exposure is over a minute. That is, Delta will give markedly different results to Acros even though they have the same speed.

For example, one particular building I have photographed numerous times with different films requires 10 minutes for HP5, 6 minutes for Delta 400, and 2 minutes for Acros 100.

brian steinberger · Sep 28, 2009

Andy K said:
Andrew Sanderson's 'Night Photography'. ISBN 1 902538 12 9.

Should tell you everything you need to know.

Agreed. Great book. Tells you everything you'll need to know.

Btw... I would recommend a 400 speed film, unless you have lots of patience..

glbeas · Sep 28, 2009

brian steinberger said:
Agreed. Great book. Tells you everything you'll need to know.

Btw... I would recommend a 400 speed film, unless you have lots of patience..

When you are dealing with long exposures and reciprocity effects the 400 speed film can actually need a longer exposure than a film like Acros depending on that films formulation.

Larry.Manuel · Sep 28, 2009

With B&W negative film, bracket over a wide exposure range, 2 stops at a time, and you'll soon see what you like. Give the film enough light and the scene will look almost like daytime. That might not be what you like best.

Agreed: Acros is great if you can find it. Any film will work, though.

brian steinberger · Sep 28, 2009

glbeas said:
When you are dealing with long exposures and reciprocity effects the 400 speed film can actually need a longer exposure than a film like Acros depending on that films formulation.

Gary, you're right. Acros would be an exception.

jimmyp · Sep 29, 2009

I second the idea of exploring the Nocturnes web site and looking at Troy's primer on the LostAmerica website.

I shoot a lot at night, but mostly color. I use NPL (killed by fuji) and any of the Tungsten-balanced 64 speed transparency films.

For black & white, the acros is good, but the delta 400 should be fine too.

What are you going to shoot at night? buildings in mixed lighting? landscapes under full moon?

Bracketing at night can be a bear, if you talking about a couple stops on either side of a 20 minute exposure. After one set of brackets you can say "Good Morning."

--

Jimmy

lilmsmaggie · Sep 29, 2009

AmandaTom said:
Delta is not a direct substitute for Acros.

Thanks Amanda. I wasn't thinking of a direct substitute per se. Just trying to stay in compliance with the instructors film list.

BTW - I ordered a copy of Sanderson's book and contacted Troy Paiva about workshop dates. Tim Baskerville is holding a workshop in Death Valley - October 30-31, November 1, 2009, but I can't make those dates.

Need to save my Lincolns

AmandaTom · Sep 29, 2009

I have taken a class with Tim Baskerville and he's great. He has some very helpful cheat sheets for bracketing with a variety of films, and also gives developing instructions for those films. In fact, I am going on an alumni shoot with him this weekend at Mare Island Naval Shipyard. Would you happen to be in the Bay Area? Or are you in Southern Cal?

Marco B · Sep 29, 2009

glbeas said:
When you are dealing with long exposures and reciprocity effects the 400 speed film can actually need a longer exposure than a film like Acros depending on that films formulation.

I have ran a long exposures test using Fuji Acros 100, Ilford HP5, Kodak TXP 320 and Kodak TMAX 400 (latest emulsion)

TMAX 400 beats Acros 100 and all other films at all times up to 8 hours exposure time! (although the difference is minimal at that maximum value, but significantly bigger in favour of TMAX 400 at shorter exposures times, especially with shorter than 2 hours exposure)

Although Acros 100 has slightly better reciprocity failure characteristics than TMAX400, that difference is not so big that it makes up for the two stop difference, as my test showed. I still need to scan these negs properly and post them once on my website, sorry I can't show it to you know.

I have succesfully made F128 pinhole images with TMAX 400 4x5 film with exposure times of 7 to 45 minutes that would have required hours on old emulsion like HP5 (Camera was Zero Image 4x5 pinhole):

This one is 7 minutes:

This one is 45 minutes:

Marco

AmandaTom · Sep 29, 2009

This is very intriguing Marco. My pinhole is f256 and takes a 4"x10" piece of film. Do you have any additional data to share? Are your two uploaded images both TMax 400?

bobwysiwyg · Sep 29, 2009

How does one arrive at these exposure times?

AmandaTom · Sep 29, 2009

bobwysiwyg said:
How does one arrive at these exposure times?

Generally through lots of failure... and bracketing... and suggestions from others

Sirius Glass · Sep 29, 2009

For a good starting point for night exposures, go to this URL [http://www.stacken.kth.se/~maxz/programming.html] and scroll down to "New Jiffy Night Calculator" and download the files. I started using these when it was first published in 1963 and it has never failed me. When I used it then for slides, the exposures were bang on. For long exposures, it is a good place to start and then correct for reciprocity failure.

Steve

Vaughn · Sep 29, 2009

AmandaTom said:
Generally through lots of failure... and bracketing... and suggestions from others

Right on! And I'll add to that -- Keep notes so that one can repeat one's successes and avoid repeating one's failures.

Vaughn

bobwysiwyg · Sep 29, 2009

Sirius Glass said:
For a good starting point for night exposures, go to this URL [http://www.stacken.kth.se/~maxz/programming.html] and scroll down to "New Jiffy Night Calculator" and download the files. I started using these when it was first published in 1963 and it has never failed me. When I used it then for slides, the exposures were bang on. For long exposures, it is a good place to start and then correct for reciprocity failure.

Steve

I love to look at that link, but I'm getting a not found message.:confused:

Sirius Glass · Sep 29, 2009

I am posting it again. It is working for me.

http://www.stacken.kth.se/~maxz/programming.html

AmandaTom · Sep 29, 2009

You also have to remember that when you get past about 3 minutes, an extra stop or two does not make a big difference. For example, a 5-10-20 minute set of shots may show very little variation. Likewise, 1 hour or 3 hours may only differ in the length of the star trails. But a 5-10-20 second set will show a lot of difference. It is only when the film is actually reacting to light in a somewhat linear fashion that time is crucial. The lack of precision in night photography is what frustrates a lot of people--but I love it because it eliminates a lot of sticky technical issues that bother me with my day photography.

Night Photography

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency