Newbie Question....apologies in advance!

[OCTAF1SH]

Hi guys,

I have a very newbie question regarding the production of digi negs. I am just staring out on the path of printing my own photos with alt processes (lith rpinting in particular, but will explore others too) and want to begin producing digi negs from existing work....The question I have is regarding printers.

I have done a fair bit of searching on this site, and others, and was wondering - what are the basic requirements for a printer to produce a good digi neg? I am not especially looking for large format, as I have medium format capable enlarger etc which I can use instead of contact printing. I see a lot of people seem to lean towards Epson printers, is this because they are better, or just because of compatibility with QTR?

I am running with the assumption (which I am prepared to be laughed at for!) that the only real requirements are the ability to produce genuinely opaque areas in prints onto transparencies, and a printer with feed rollers that don't mark the negative during printing.

I also have questions regarding PDN Vs QTR...are the two programs capable of the same results, or is one generally accepted to be superior? I am a Mac user, and as such understand the UI of QTR on a mac is not not as user friendly, but that doesn't really put me off if it is a superior piece of software.

The Epson 2200 is a printer model I see spoken of frequently here, but I am having trouble finding one for sale which isn't listed as needing some sort of work done to it, are there others more readily available (the fact that the Epson shop has no 2200s leads me to believe it is now superceeded) which are not overly expensive? I don't mind paying for quality, but don't have 1000s to blow on a printer....and from what I understand, I will need the extra pennies for inks while learning!!

many thanks for any advice, and I apologise if this has been covered many times over, I promise I did search before posting!

Wil.

 

[Bob Carnie]

I am using an Epson printer to make digital negatives for Lith printing

We are just using the epson driver and photoshop and creating negatives that we feel are good for lith. Increasing the curve gradient to make contrasty negs.

Lith prints require massive overexposure and snatch development.

A good lith print in my shop is very grainy looking and the digi negative should work nicely ... I do not think making contact silver prints will be that great with an inkjet digi neg.

I made some negs on the weekend and will be printing them shortly and will post a couple for viewing.

 

[OCTAF1SH]

Thanks Bob!

Always seems to be you replying to my posts! I appreciate it, thanks.

So do you adjust curves for each print individually, rather than having lith 'profile templates' for want of a better term, and rather than using QTR to adjust the printer settings? Apologies for the questions, I am going to experiment, but it is useful to have a starting point from which to hone techniques to my particular tastes, and useful also to have a hint with printer types, as it's potentially an expensive error early on if I get an unsuitable printer.

Thanks again for your response Bob, and I look forward to seeing the finished photos when you post them.

 

[Bob Carnie]

I think your question is totally relevant to this site and am actually playing with this method this month so I am happy to respond.

I think for lith or solorization prints you can play a bit with your process and not be so anal with step wedges and densitometers.
I use my eyes to judge as well if you are so inclined I use the L channel info numbers to set my end points.


Get your image into greyscale, make a curve layer and go beyond what you would think is normal contrast for a normal scene, then do another and go even further, at some point you will know where your image has to be.
Making three negs is easy peasy.
so once you have an image where you think you need to be, make sure you go to RGB, invert , flip horizontal, and print.
The trouble you will find is creating enough blocking power and contrast with inkjet negs but if you make three negatives you should be in the range.( Since lith is so forgiving on tonality
I think this will be a great way to make negs for lith printing and even solarization where you are basically distorting reality.}

Contact with a heavy glass or plate plexi on a flat surface,,,, I use a second enlarger to flash Lith which allows you more contrast control.
the more flash the lower the contrast, no flash and you will get more contrast..
then process this print as normal in Lith Chemistry and snatch at the desired point. Contrary to most lith printers , my dilutions are very strong and will not process beyond 5 min.

I have made lith prints using Lambda negatives which have greater blocking power, but since I am teaching at a local art co op digital workflow I think this will be an amazing
way of bringing young shooters into the darkroom without scaring the crap out of them with Zone System, spot meters, Enlarger optics and technical issues .
Just need a light source with timer, a sink, any kitchen , laundry room , bathroom , office kitchen will do the trick.

Harmon talks about Defend The Darkroom, I believe this is a very practical , easy way of getting youth , who have never used a film camera into the darkroom and maybe falling in love with
the darkroom.
Convert to BW, Curve Shape, Dodge Burn, Sharpen, Invert , flip horizontal, Print digi neg, Contact expose onto silver paper, flash for contrast, slip in tray and watch the magic *** holy crap batman what a concept***


Bob

 

[Bob Carnie]

Most of the other workers on this site are more experienced with different printer models , used and new, I am using a Cannon 9000 and a Epson 7800.
My main digital printer is a Lambda 76 so I am a bit out of the loop about costs and such.

I just know how to use them for printing purposes.

 

[R Shaffer]

I agree with what Bob has said so far and I can add a few of my own opinions

Why Epson: I think that's because epson makes a good photo printer and you can use QTR. QTR is an exceptionally affordable RIP which allows you to control each individual ink. This can be very helpful in crafting a digital negative. Note that not all the current crop of epson printers are compatible with QTR. The learning curve with QTR is significant.

PDN is a system for creating digital negatives. I'll let other with more experience with PDN to comment on it benefits.

Your right that pretty much any printer can make a digital negative. I used to use an HP B9180 and I was quite happy with that printer, for prints and digi negs, until it died due to a paper feed issue. I would lean towards a pigment printer since I think they generally have better blocking power. Yes, ink is expensive for the small consumer printers. This is why it can make more $$ sense to get a professional printer ( like the Epson 3880 ) which uses large ink cartridges if you intend to make a lot of prints and digi negs.

A good freeware for digital negatives is Chartthrob. It is very helpful for creating curves. Also look up the info available on HSL Arrays & RNP Arrays for finding a good blocking color to go with chartthrob.

 

[Molli]

(Deleted - Moved to new thread. At risk of 'hijacking' this thread - sorry!)