Newbie: need cheap RF then more expensive one!

[Peltigera]

Voigtlander made two excellent rangefinders Vitomatic IIa and Vito BR. Neither uses a battery and are very sturdy cameras. The Vito BR has no built-in light meter but the Vitomatic does. My main camera is the Voigtlander Vitomatic IIa. The Zeiss Ikon Contessa LKE is just as good and also does not use batteries.

 

[Peltigera]

Vito cameras to ignore - the C series. The shutter release also cocks the shutter (which makes it stiff) and the release button is in a poor place. I find them very difficult to use.

 

[Greg Heath]

The Contessamat is one of those that is passed up, but it's a great camera. I got mine for free. I love the lens. So clear. It's a nice camera for street photography. No need to ever look through the viewfinder. Just set it and forget it, ...and look for an opportunity.

 

[sandermarijn]

I'll take a peak at the 28. Do you know how it compares to the 17? Is it bigger or smaller?

I don't know as I never held or even saw a 17 in real life. I *think* the Canonet 28 is a fair bit smaller, but that's perhaps only because the lens isn't as big.

Google found me this comparison picture: Dead Link Removed. In there they look sort of the same (apart from the lens), maybe the Canonet 28 a bit smaller; the perspective could be somewhat deceiving though.

Sander

 

[Tony-S]

I don't know as I never held or even saw a 17 in real life. I *think* the Canonet 28 is a fair bit smaller, but that's perhaps only because the lens isn't as big.

They are the same form factor; no appreciable size differences in the bodies.

 

[demonboy]

Thanks for the comparison picture. Why is the QL-17 so much more expensive than the Canonet 28? I know the latter is the 'consumer' version of the former (though I'm not really sure what that means) but are there any functional or quality differences?

Thanks for the Contessamat suggestions, Greg. Another one to look into.

 

[Tony-S]

The GIII version of the QL17 gets the highest price. In comparison to the 28, the obvious difference in cost is the faster lens (f/1.7 vs. f/2.8). So if you're ok with the slower lens (~1 1/3 stops slower) then the 28 may be suitable. However, the 28 has auto-exposure only (I believe) and its shutter is limited to 1/30" to 1/600", it has no self-timer. There are probably a few other differences. To me, the QL17 G-III is among the best rangefinders available in 35mm.

 

[demonboy]

Thanks, Tony. For me self-timer is unnecessary and shutter speeds are only for hand-held stuff, so anything under 1/30 isn't a problem. The slower lens might be though. I think I said in an earlier post that I handled the QL17 and really liked it, though I can't wait to get my hands on that Oly RC!

 

[Smudger]

Just to clarify a persistent MYTH about the Yashica GSN and variants .
While it is TRUE the camera was designed with a 5.6V mercury battery in mind, it operates just fine with 4x 1.55V silver-oxides. Or,at a pinch,4 SR44 alkalines.
The only 'adaptor" needed is a sleeve to stop the smaller diameter silvers from rattling around, and a spring to ensure good contact with the battery cover cap.

 

[sandermarijn]

However, the 28 has auto-exposure only (I believe)...

True. No aperture or speed priority on the Canonet 28. Full auto only.

There is a ring around the lens that has aperture numbers on it, but this is for use with a flash only, not for aperture priority. This already annoyed me when I was a kid. Of course back then the Canonet 28 was the only camera on the planet.

Shame about the mercury issue with the batteries. My Canonet 28 still has one of those forbidden batteries inside. They seem to last forever- still it may not be a unwise idea to start looking for an adapter for silver oxide batteries. The adapter-plus-batteries may be more expensive than the camera, but sentimental value is not to be ignored.

 

[sandermarijn]

Can't say that it hasn't been used (Leica fans pay heed):





48mm filter size- what were Canon thinking?

 

[Diapositivo]

Nice review of several compact rangefinder of the past:

http://www.cameraquest.com/com35s.htm

I second the suggestion that it is better to buy a camera in decent condition and have it serviced in any case, rather than trying to look for a camera that doesn't need servicing. Those cameras need servicing in any case, especially the viewfinder can easily become dusty and so "foggy". A cleaning will improve usability considerably. €30 to €50 are well spent money. If you want to save, buy an aesthetically "unpleasing" camera rather than save on CLA (cleaning, adjustement, lubrication) I say.

I own a Canon Canonet QL20, a Voigtländer Vito CLR and a Yashica T3 on which I can comment.

The Canonet has the "faster" lens, has a nice quickload feature (which can be precious in street photography for ease and speed in film change), but I find the rangefinder patch slow to use, the viewfinder in general is a bit small, and the weight can become a problem if you intend to carry the camera in your shirt pocket or in your trouser pocket.

Street photography often requires as you point out zone focusing more than proper calm accurate focusing so the comfortable rangefinder might not be your priority.

The Voigtländer has a good rangefinder and especially has a wonderful viewfinder: very bright, big, lets you concentrate very well on composition like a SLR. Actually better as you can see outside of the framed field.

Besides, the Vito like a Leica has the viewfinder on the left edge of the body, if you use the right eye to compose, you can keep the left eye open and the size of the two images have the same magnification so that, with a bit of habit, you can take pictures while keeping both eyes open and be aware of what is happening around (people, cars going to enter inside the frame). This is the only camera of those three which can be used this way.

Disadvantages: bigger than the Canonet (probably not heavier, though). You have to set the frame counter manually (not a big problem); The in-built light meter might not work properly and not be economically repairable. Doesn't matter, for candid photography in B&W just use the "preset" exposure (with 100 ISO: 1/60 @ f/8 and forget about exposure: shades will be exposed well, subject in the sun will be "overexposed" by 2 stops but very printable in any case).

The Yashica T3 is a modern camera (mine bought 1989). Plastic, autoexposure, autofocus, no compensation, motor winder/rewinder.
Against: not very "fast" lens (a high quality Zeiss 35/2.8 which is not to disappoint for sharpness and flare at all, its worse defect being the vignetting).
Extremely light. Extremely rough. Extremely fast in use.
You also have a tiny but usable vertical viewfinder (waist-level) which is perfect for street shooting.
Wheatherproof.

The autofocus is a 16-step one i.e. serious stuff. The lens, as said, is serious as well. You have an AF confirmation on the viewfinder, and you can "lock" focus and recompose.

The small flash can be very useful though not for your kind of work. It turns on automatically in low light conditions. It is switchable off and it is forceable on for "fill-in".

The worst defect is that the rewinder rewinds automatically after the last frame. That can be noisy in a silent room, a church etc. and is not avoidable. Quick film loading is very fast and reliable though, really the perfect stuff. This camera always takes 38 pictures out of a Fuji slide film.

The other big problem is the lack of exposure compensation. I make do with a hand projecting its shadow over the camera sensor when I need it to open the exposure "for the shadows" and the camera is in the sun.

Hope this helps
Fabrizio

PS Yashica T3 is on a class of its own for the high quality glass, better IMO than the Canonet one or the Voigtländer one, among those three. Beware the Yashica T4 is a different animal with a different lens IIRC. Go for the T3 not the T2 or T4 is my suggestion.

 

[Tony-S]

Just to clarify a persistent MYTH about the Yashica GSN and variants. While it is TRUE the camera was designed with a 5.6V mercury battery in mind, it operates just fine with 4x 1.55V silver-oxides. Or,at a pinch,4 SR44 alkalines. The only 'adaptor" needed is a sleeve to stop the smaller diameter silvers from rattling around, and a spring to ensure good contact with the battery cover cap.

I just use two lithium batteries, 1/3N (3V) and 123A (3V). They stack just fine without taping them together or buying some a tube.

 

[demonboy]

Just wanted to thank you, Diapositivo, for your comprehensive response. There are some useful pointers in there, cheers.

 

[janrzm]

A word of warning....I started with a Yashica Electro 35 GSN, now 40 cameras later I have not yet stopped!!!! This camera is widely available, relatively cheap and capable of good results. http://aperturepriority.co.nz/2012/04/11/a-timely-reminder/

 

[janrzm]

A word of warning, I started with a Yashica Electro 35 GSN, 40 cameras later I have not stopped....The Yashica is widely available, relatively inexpensive and will give you decent results. You can see some on my website.

 

[Vanishing Point Ent.]

The Olympus XA is a decent choice, Then perhaps look at the Voigtlander Bessa series.

The Olympus XA is a decent choice also, and is very portable. Maybe, a model with an interchangable lens would be a nice choice if you decide to augment the XA.

Check this out...
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Then perhaps look at the Voigtlander Bessa series.

I personally own an Olympus XA as a point & shoot, with my main rangefinders being a

Contax G2, ( with 21 & 28 mm Biogons, a 45 mm Planar, a 90 mm Sonnar ),

( NO 35 mm Planar ) & a Voigtlander Bessa L, ( with 12 & 15 mm LTM Biogons ).

It's a small, relatively light weight package, but Razor Sharp. The advantage here is that

the True Wide Angle Biogon design lenses, eliminate ALL Wide Angle Distortion.

While the 45 mm Planar & 90 mm Sonnar are among the sharpest tested lenses

ever produced.

One does not build a kit like this overnight, but the ends justify the means

& the wait.

 

[demonboy]

Nicely put, Vanishing Point.

 

[elcabezagrande]

Sigh. Everyone overlooks the great Vivitar 35ES. Small in size, but massive in quality, both build and optics.


Vivitar 35 ES by Greyscale3, on Flickr


035_3 by Greyscale3, on Flickr