Newbie beginning my own darkroom.. questions about chemicals and processing

[Deit39]

Hello APUGers..

I am Bob. I graduated college a year ago and have been itching to get back to the darkroom ever since. I don't have a lot of money, live at home with my folks, and although I havew approx 2 years experience in the darkroom, I never mixed my own chemicals!
Lucky for me, my father and grandfather were both avid photo enthusiast and my dad has a whole bunch of old trays, squeegees, an old bogen enlarger (circa 1950s-60s), a double 120 and single 35mm steel developing tanks, grainfocuser, filters and a various assortment of other things.
Also.. to my amazement..I found a Bronica Zenza SLR and a Minolta autocord TLR in the closet. I never knew my dad had these awesome cameras and was a bit annoyed he'd been hiding them from me!! I've been shooting with both cameras for a month or two and have a few rolls waiting to be developed.
Anyways..
I got myself 5 graduated 32oz pitchers, 2 half gallon 'accordion' containers for the developer into, and 2 one gallon brown bottles.

Chemicals I bought:
Kodak pro D-76 powder solution
Sprint Stop
Ilford Rapid Fixer
Photog's Forumulary - Hypo clear agent
Kodak pro Photo-Flo 200


Now… I 've never mixed my own chemicals before so I am very nervous about messing it all up.
I know developer is sensitive to oxygen, hence why I got the collapsable 'accordion' bottles to reduce O2 in the bottle.
but I have a bunch of (most likely dumb) questions:
Are any of the chemicals sensitive to light or oxygen while mixing or storing?
How should I mix the developer? the guy at the store told me to slowly add the powder solution little by little.. Does temperture matter when mixing?
I don't have a drying cabinet, when I am done processing, how dangerous is it to just leave them hanging in my basement? (squeegeed or no?)
Uhm. Are there any important tips/advice/info that I should know??
I am sure I have more questions.. but let's just start there!

 

[RalphLambrecht]

...
Are any of the chemicals sensitive to light or oxygen while mixing or storing?

Yes, keep them in the dark for storage, but your plastic bottle in a closet is dark enough. Don't worry about the oxygen while mixing too much, but if you mix hot and cold water, let it sit until clear.

...
How should I mix the developer? the guy at the store told me to slowly add the powder solution little by little.. Does temperture matter when mixing?

The guy is right. Use up to 40C water for D76 to help the powder dissolve.

...
I don't have a drying cabinet, when I am done processing, how dangerous is it to just leave them hanging in my basement? (squeegeed or no?)

Find a dust free area. Once dust is firmly lodged into the negative emulsion cannot be removed. Usually is is not a problem as long as there is no air movement. Only use the squeeze God gave you, two fingers. Everything else will ruin your film one day.

...
I am sure I have more questions.. but let's just start there!

That's what we're here for.

Welcome to a great hobby and passion?

 

[Neal]

Dear Deit39,

Mixing D-76: Follow the instructions on the package. Warm the water if you are allowed to and don't dump the whole thing in at once.

Don't overfill the collapsible bottle. It will fall over.

Dry your film in the shower. Getting it a little steamed up first helps.

Tips: Don't panic. There is always another photograph to make. Follow this sequence: Shoot - develop - print - learn from mistakes. Break your D-76 up into smaller bottles and use the stock diluted 1+1 as a 1-shot. Much easier than trying to allow for the number of rolls through a given amount of developer.

You'll get lots more tips, I'm sure.

Have fun,

Neal Wydra

 

[Chazzy]

Welcome to APUG, Bob. It sounds as if you have hit the ground running. Ditto to everything Ralph said. And I would only add that you might eventually want some smaller storage bottles; if you decant a gallon of D76 (I believe it's sold in gallon packages) into quart/liter bottles, you can fill the smaller bottles to the brim and only expose one bottle to the air as you use the developer. Some people use marbles to raise the level of the developer to the top of the bottle to exclude the air, but it takes a lot of marbles. Others top off the bottle with some kind of inert gas to prevent the developer from being exposed to the oxygen in the air. I only point these methods out because many people eventually decide that they don't like the accordion-type bottles. But by all means use what you have and see how you like your gear.

Good luck! I think that you are going to have a lot of fun!

 

[Christopher Walrath]

Welcome to APUG, Bob. A couple mroe tips. As long as your drying environment is not dust free, hang the film with little or no circulating air. If there is even only a little dust in the air and your moving it around it will all invariably collect on your wet film. Only circulate air if your environs are immaculately dust free. Mix the D76 into hot water (52C/125F), about 3/4 the require water for the recipe. Once the powder is throughly mixed, add cold water to make your final volume. And save time and water, use the Ilford 5-10-20 rinse method. After fix, fill the tank with water, invert five times and drain. The fill, invert 10 times and drain. Then fill, invert 20 times and drain. Then a minute with a couple of drops of PhotoFlo. Squeegee your film by running your index and middle fingers down either side of the film and hang'er up.

Good luck.

 

[moouers]

Closing the bathroom door and telling everyone to use the other object of my name in the other area of the house helps in keeping dust off my drying negatives...haven't had a problem yet.

 

[wclark5179]

Welcome!

I always learn here an I desire to help as well!

For storage of stock chemicals I've found that empty soda bottles work the best. I mainly use the 2 liter bottles, therefore 2 bottles are a wee-bit too much for 1 gallon of stock as 3.8 liters = 1 gallon. I also use 1 liter and 500 ml. bottles. I've found the plastic doesn't react with the stock chemistry and the lids seal quite well, time after time. I use masking tape and mark with a Sharpie pen the contents and the date I mixed the stuff up.

I've got film developers, D-76 & ID-11 that are 2 yrs. old and still work. I keep the stock solutions underneath the bathroom sink where it's dark.

Best to your success and fun photographing with film.

 

[Deit39]

Ok. So I mixed my developer. I let it sit until clear but I poured it in the collapsible containers while it was still quite warm.. Is that bad?
I'm about to mix my Ilford rapid fixer up. It says 1 part concentrate to 3 parts water but it doesn't say if this is the stock solution or working solution. It's a 500ml bottle and on the front it says "To make: 2.5 liters (1+4) or 5 liters (1+9)" So I am confused.. 500ml bottle mixed with 3 parts water would be 2 liters. NOT 2.5 and what does (1+4) and (1+9) mean... further diluting??
Next question - is it necessary to mix the stop or can I just measure it out in my graduated cylinder (1:9) when I begin processing and leave the concentrate in the bottle??
And.. again.. at school all these things were done by the photo tech.. I never had to think about how to mix chemicals, but, with photo flo it's 1:200.. I don't have a dropper or small beakers to measure.. I was considering just splashing a small amount into a poland spring bottle.. is this wise? My reasoning was that photo flo just helps the water drying part.. how much harm could not measuring it do?! Right?

Big thank-yous go to everyone who replied!! The internet is fabulous.

 

[moouers]

Ok. So I mixed my developer. I let it sit until clear but I poured it in the collapsible containers while it was still quite warm.. Is that bad?
I'm about to mix my Ilford rapid fixer up. It says 1 part concentrate to 3 parts water but it doesn't say if this is the stock solution or working solution. It's a 500ml bottle and on the front it says "To make: 2.5 liters (1+4) or 5 liters (1+9)" So I am confused.. 500ml bottle mixed with 3 parts water would be 2 liters. NOT 2.5 and what does (1+4) and (1+9) mean... further diluting??
Next question - is it necessary to mix the stop or can I just measure it out in my graduated cylinder (1:9) when I begin processing and leave the concentrate in the bottle??
And.. again.. at school all these things were done by the photo tech.. I never had to think about how to mix chemicals, but, with photo flo it's 1:200.. I don't have a dropper or small beakers to measure.. I was considering just splashing a small amount into a poland spring bottle.. is this wise? My reasoning was that photo flo just helps the water drying part.. how much harm could not measuring it do?! Right?

Big thank-yous go to everyone who replied!! The internet is fabulous.

Mix up the fixer when you're actually ready to process - that would be the working solution . Please correct me if I'm wrong, anyone! As for the photo-flo, I'd go to a drug store and pick up a measured syringe for measuring those really small amounts. They work wonders. Basically all those dilution numbers are for working solutions and should not be mixed up until the day you'll be doing your processing. For the stop bath, it probably has a color indicator, so you can keep your mixed stop solution in a separate container and keep reusing it until it changes color on you.

 

[Denis R]

been there, done that - a few days ago

I mixed up the chemicals 11/22/09 and printed the labels on my seiko 100 thermal printer the day before on 1.1 x 3.5" address label 18pt arial bold centered
water does not hurt the labels

D-76 FILM DEVELOPER
STOCK SOLUTION
11/21/09

ILFOSTOP
1+19 STOP 10 s
11/21/09

RAPID FILM FIXER
1+4 FIX 2-5m
11/21/09

PHOTO-FLO 200
DRYING AID 1+200
11/21/09

the accordian bottle is like a wet noodle until the developer cools, it's also hard to pour without spilling until the bottle has shrank by atleast 2 levels

D-76 mixed with HOT water read and follow label directions
next batch will boil water instead of heat in microwave

RAPID FILM FIXER I had the same "label confusion" as you so I referred to the data sheet "For all film fixing applications ILFORD RAPID FIXER
is diluted 1+4 with water."

the answer is very simple 2L of water + 1 bottle of fixer

PHOTO-FLO 200 mixed 800 ml of water with 4 ml of PHOTO-FLO 200

don't bother with hypo-clear as there is no hypo to begin with

majority of chemicals were mixed in 2.5 gallon blue bucket from wal-mart and stirred with a paint stir stick from lowe's

measured in 16 oz 1/2 L anchor measuring cup and 4 oz measuring "shot glass"

processed 4 rolls of film with good results after switching to plastic tank and reels

keep in mind 8 oz of D-76 stock solution is required for every 36x of 35mm

will later try hanging film in 2" pvc to dry

 

[Deit39]

Well I did it.. negatives are looking pretty solid!! Thank you for everyone's help.. maybe I'll scan them in tomorrow and share them here if anyone's interested..

Thanks again!!

 

[Steve Roberts]

>>>I got myself 5 graduated 32oz pitchers,
Personally, I like my pitchers to be 10" x 7"

>>>Uhm. Are there any important tips/advice/info that I should know??
If you haven't got one, I'd recommend that you obtain a paper box so that you can "decant" a few sheets at a time from your paper supply. It saves the hassle of fiddling with the cardboard box the paper comes in every time you need a new sheet and if you should happen to leave it open and switch on the white light you only wreck a few sheets. I made such a box out of plywood and it was time well spent. A restraint stops the cover from opening as far as vertical, so it always closes as soon as you let go of the lid. You were very lucky to acquire those cameras!
Good luck!
Steve

 

[Jeff Kubach]

Sounds like you're on you're way to having a good time to analog photography!

Jeff

 

[Christopher Walrath]

Definitely pick a couple of medical syringes or eye droppers. Graduate of course. Come in VERY handy when dosing out minute qty's of raw chemistry. And I add the chemistry into the grad cup and then invert the bottles five times once filled and five more times a couple of minutes prior to starting. Congrats, and post those neg scans.

 

[MenacingTourist]

Welcome Bob. Keep your eyes peeled for area gatherings. We have a pretty good bunch of guys around that are fun to shoot with. I'm in central Jersey myself.

Alan.

 

[Christopher Walrath]

There's a great and very active NE group as well as the Mid Atlantic group. We don't do quite as much as the Yanks, but we do get things done.

 

[Deit39]

Sounds good.. what goes on at these gatherings? Enough to amuse a drunken 23 year old like myself?

Anyways.. I said I'd post my results.. first time developing 120 film with chemicals I mixed myself (also a first.)
First off.. How do I post my own images on this thread if I don't have a URL address for them? Do I have to load them to something like flickr first? or other server?

Secondly.. scanning negatives and converting them to be web friendly is a whole other set of problems.
Before I post them let me run you through the process and the pitfalls. I have a rather old HP G4050 flatbed scanner which I got about two years ago which has negative carriers. First pitfall - the carriers do not hold the negatives flat nor can I do a scan using a plate of glass b/c the scanner won't allow it without seeing the proper carrier. (What I may try to do is to cut black cardstock to replicate the carrier and use a plate of glass on top of it.. hoping to 'trick' the scanner.. we'll see how productive/lazy I'll be these next few days) I'm doing this on my old IBM because for whatever reason I was never able to get the scanner to work properly on my mac.. The monitor is not calibrated but I don't give a damn b/c I'll work on them on my mac which IS calibrated.. I open photoshop and go to IMPORT and select "TWAIN" and get an interface which has a couple controls. I don't like using TWAIN and if anyone knows of another application I could use or whatever.. let me know. The first problem.. selecting the output "Millions of colors" all of a sudden, depending on how I crop the selected area, my B&W negatives become tinted anywhere from magenta to yellow to cyan. A year or so back I scanned a whole bunch of 35 negs in and would continually get random color streaks and interesting effects which I actually enjoyed for artistic reasons...but when my goal is getting clear, accurate, scans.. it is just damn irritating. So I opted to go from millions of colors to 256(grayscale).. which I would assume is a poorer quality scan with less detail, but at least I'm not getting cyan or magenta duotones..?
Second pitfall - my beautiful negatives which look great on my lighttable and I imagine will be a breeze to print once I build my darkroom - they scan in VERY dark. Now, I want to make sure I'm getting details in the shadows and highlights so I am FORCED to use the TWAIN light/dark adjusting tool. I don't want to do that but I have no other option.. If I don't, I just get dark scans which I can't work with. (Interesting, too, how no matter how much I just want to show you the negatives I made, I inevitably will have to do heavy 'photoshopping' in one way or the other!) OK. Scan completed - next is making them web friendly. My knowledge of color profiles and what color spaces to work in, etc, lead me to think.. WEB = sRGB WORKING= aRGB or ProPhoto. --- So I assigned the profile "sGray" which I assumed is similar to using sRGB except it's for grayscale images.. Please correct me if I'm wrong or if you know/think that assigning another profile would be better for displaying web images.

Here is the recap:
Processed negs
Old flatbed scanner which doesn't hold negs flat
256 grayscale output
TWAIN's shoddy level adjustments (which I can't zoom in on!! adjustments end up being ballparked approximations)
16bit image converted to 8bit
Resolution from 300 dpi to 72 dpi for the web
assign sGray profile
then posted for all the world of APUG to see.. (and maybe my blog if I ever make one of those..)

I realize no one probably gives a damn about seeing my shots or not.. but for my own sake, I'd like to learn, and I realize this is a site dedicated to film which wants nothing to do with the 'digital wave'.. BUT!! it is all too ubiquitous now! any and all help would be greatly appreciated.

(Unless your advice is: finish building your darkroom and scan your prints idiot!! - all in due time.. I deliver pizza and I have an alcohol habit to continue funding... one day!!)

 

[Denis R]

drink coke

Dead Link Removed


Scan slides and negatives and capture every detail with 4800 x 9600-dpi hardware resolution2.

Built-in Transparent Materials Adapter (TMA); sixteen 35 mm slides/thirty 35 mm negative frames/two medium format film frames/one 4 x 5” film frame (including hardware-based dust & scratch removal solution)

use Adobe ImageReady and photoshop 7
photoshop elements v1.0 also works well, my favorite, but does not have fx

scan negs in "COLOUR" and CONVERT in photoshop to b/w and invert (1)

file-import-scanner
preview-scan-close scan window
layers-background copy-new adjustment layer invert
image-rotate-flip horizontal & vertical
enhance-color-remove color
image-resize-image size-constrain-?x
file-save for web-quality-ok-save-save in-file name-save

later versions will allow you to do everything one time and automate to the remainder of images

(1) if color does not work, use 256

the attached image was taken with D60 to use as a training aid and show what happens as the steps are followed, so keep in mind how this is a (negative) when you do your processing it will become a (positive)

 

[Christopher Walrath]

Yeah. What he said.

 

[Deit39]

Appreciate your help Dennis R.. Except after attempting to get the driver from HP.. I ended up going in circles on their website and emailing them to complain that I couldn't find driver. So I plugged in the scanner to my mac and rebooted - opened up Photoshop CS3 and was amazed to see HP photo scan(twain) as an option on my import menu! Problem solved, right!?!? Noooo.... tried to scan over a dozen times... preview scan shows up, I make my selection, hit "Accept" and EVERY TIME I did, PS would crash, and the TWAIN interface would freeze up. - Force Quit PS- Force Quit HP - back to square one...

But this wasn't even my real issue in the first place.. my first issue was that the scanner doesnt hold the negs flat and the quality sucks.

And the other issue of how to share images on this thread.. how do I do that? make a flickr and link to URL? Booo!

 

[cbphoto]

Concentrate your efforts on making a great print and then scan that. I've been screwing around with Imacon scanners for about 5 years, and I have an easier time in a wet darkroom. With a flatbed, you'll be wasting a lot of time and effort. Use it to scan the print only - on the web, the generation loss will not be apparent, and the tonal reduction of going from film to paper will make the scanning itself a breeze.