New To Me Century Graphic Special. Help.

Cholentpot · Aug 27, 2020

Hi,

I picked up a Century Graphic with a 120 back (and a mint Retina 11c) for a song. I don't know anything about view cameras or press cameras from a practical standpoint. Can someone point me to some resources or how to use these things? I need to calibrate the rangefinder.

The camera did not come with a ground glass of any sort. I'd like one, where would I look for one and what would I be looking for exactly? I'd also like to shoot sheets if I can find holders and a back.

I'm very excited to use this camera, I just need a few parts.

Ohio · Aug 27, 2020

Zach from Mercury Camera Works sells ground glass in a frame that work with Century Graphics provided they have a Graflok back. I've bought two---the first I broke in a rare combo of clumsiness meeting rock, and apparently quite the achievement-. I'm so proud. But the GG works great with both of my Century Graphics and it's my preferred method of using them. Basically, I treat it like a little view camera and that works well for me.

Mike Butkus's orphan cameras website has the manual: https://www.butkus.org/chinon/century_graphic-23/century_graphic-23.htm. You can donate to the site as it's a goldmine of info. I think there's something about calibrating the Kalart there (or in the manual) as well but I can't remember.

Finally, there are some people here who use Graflex cameras a lot generally and Century Graphics specifically who are great with practical info.

Good luck. It's a fun camera.

Dan Fromm · Aug 27, 2020

The list has the links you need. If you don't know what the list is, ask.

For the time being, you and your Century Graphic are toast. The camera can be used as is with the roll holder if and only the camera has a rangefinder and the RF is calibrated for the lens on the camera. The ground glass needed for focusing is in what's called a focusing panel. Your camera's focusing panel has been separated from the camera and, as far as you're concerned, lost. You can't easily check the RF's accuracy without a focusing panel. A strip of scotch tape across the gate is a sleazy expedient that will almost do.

With respect to a focusing panel, you're in trouble. They're hard to find. Any 2x3 Pacemaker Graphic (Crown, Speed, Century) focusing panel will fit. They sometimes show up on eBay.

The focusing panel also holds sheet film holders in place. After you have one you'll be able to use standard 2x3 sheet film holders.

I hope you're new used Retina is more usable as is.

I don't know whether loose lips still sink ships, but loose talk and sloppy thinking will get you in trouble. Learn the language. In particular, a press/view/technical camera's back is an integral part of the camera. Focusing panels are not backs. Fill holders, in particular roll film holders, are not backs. Your Century has a back. Its focusing panel is missing. It has a clip on type roll holder.

Ohio, Mercury's ground glass attachment is not a Graflok focusing panel. It will serve for focusing when a Graflok compatible roll holder is used but it won't retain a sheet film holder. Better than nothing, but the OP wants everything.

shutterfinger · Aug 27, 2020

https://www.graflex.org/
https://www.graflex.org/helpboard/

Cholentpot said:
The camera did not come with a ground glass of any sort. I'd like one, where would I look for one and what would I be looking for exactly? I'd also like to shoot sheets if I can find holders and a back.

Its called Focus Panel and is frequently missing. Watch ebay and expect to pay more for one than you did for the camera.
Kalart Manual: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1sPJkp-Mdghc0FwQkRuWEhFZEE/view?usp=sharing

peter k. · Aug 27, 2020

Well Dan, perhaps you missed the statement, before you made yours, ..

Cholentpot said:
I don't know anything about view cameras or press cameras from a practical standpoint.

(I don't know whether loose lips still sink ships, but loose talk and sloppy thinking will get you in trouble. Learn the language. In particular, a press/view/technical camera's back is an integral part of the camera. Focusing panels are not backs. Fill holders, in particular roll film holders, are not backs. Your Century has a back. Its focusing panel is missing. It has a clip on type roll holder.)

shutterfinger · Aug 27, 2020

Dan and I were posting at the same time so he didn't have a chance to read mine or me his.

Cholentpot · Aug 27, 2020

Ohio said:
Zach from Mercury Camera Works sells ground glass in a frame that work with Century Graphics provided they have a Graflok back. I've bought two---the first I broke in a rare combo of clumsiness meeting rock, and apparently quite the achievement-. I'm so proud. But the GG works great with both of my Century Graphics and it's my preferred method of using them. Basically, I treat it like a little view camera and that works well for me.

Mike Butkus's orphan cameras website has the manual: https://www.butkus.org/chinon/century_graphic-23/century_graphic-23.htm. You can donate to the site as it's a goldmine of info. I think there's something about calibrating the Kalart there (or in the manual) as well but I can't remember.

Finally, there are some people here who use Graflex cameras a lot generally and Century Graphics specifically who are great with practical info.

Good luck. It's a fun camera.

Thanks Ohio (my home state, go local sports teams!) Camera says Graflex 120 Roll Holder notback thing. The 6x9 Ground Glass Back for Graflok 23 is what I'm looking for for focusing? How's this guy's shipping rates if I may ask?

Dan Fromm said:
The list has the links you need. If you don't know what the list is, ask.

For the time being, you and your Century Graphic are toast. The camera can be used as is with the roll holder if and only the camera has a rangefinder and the RF is calibrated for the lens on the camera. The ground glass needed for focusing is in what's called a focusing panel. Your camera's focusing panel has been separated from the camera and, as far as you're concerned, lost. You can't easily check the RF's accuracy without a focusing panel. A strip of scotch tape across the gate is a sleazy expedient that will almost do.

With respect to a focusing panel, you're in trouble. They're hard to find. Any 2x3 Pacemaker Graphic (Crown, Speed, Century) focusing panel will fit. They sometimes show up on eBay.

The focusing panel also holds sheet film holders in place. After you have one you'll be able to use standard 2x3 sheet film holders.

I hope you're new used Retina is more usable as is.

I don't know whether loose lips still sink ships, but loose talk and sloppy thinking will get you in trouble. Learn the language. In particular, a press/view/technical camera's back is an integral part of the camera. Focusing panels are not backs. Fill holders, in particular roll film holders, are not backs. Your Century has a back. Its focusing panel is missing. It has a clip on type roll holder.

Ohio, Mercury's ground glass attachment is not a Graflok focusing panel. It will serve for focusing when a Graflok compatible roll holder is used but it won't retain a sheet film holder. Better than nothing, but the OP wants everything.

We all gotta start somewhere. I already taped some wax (parchment paper) across the back to get an image.

Here's what I found on Ebay,

1
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Miniature-...&brand=Graflex&_trksid=p2047675.c101196.m2219

2
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Misc-2x3-C...rand=Unbranded&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851

3
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Graflex-Mi...640797?hash=item56e07f845d:g:kPIAAOSwygFeXG9r

4
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Graflex-Sp...rentrq:31fafa081740ad4a6ba358adffff9c84|iid:1

Out of these selections are there any 'go for it!' or straight out stinkers?

The Retina is in mint condition. Looks unused, rangefinder is dead on and shutter speeds sound correct from top to bottom.

shutterfinger said:
https://www.graflex.org/
https://www.graflex.org/helpboard/

Its called Focus Panel and is frequently missing. Watch ebay and expect to pay more for one than you did for the camera.
Kalart Manual: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1sPJkp-Mdghc0FwQkRuWEhFZEE/view?usp=sharing

Thanks.

I didn't pay nothing for the camera, but along with the Retina I think I did pretty good.

Cholentpot · Aug 27, 2020

peter k. said:
Well Dan, perhaps you missed the statement, before you made yours, ..

(I don't know whether loose lips still sink ships, but loose talk and sloppy thinking will get you in trouble. Learn the language. In particular, a press/view/technical camera's back is an integral part of the camera. Focusing panels are not backs. Fill holders, in particular roll film holders, are not backs. Your Century has a back. Its focusing panel is missing. It has a clip on type roll holder.)

We learn as we go. 120mm is not a kind of film and most rifles use magazines not clips and are loaded with cartridges and bullets not rounds.

I'll learn, but for now I'll stumble along.

On another note, are these cameras know for bellows that hold up? Mine has a red bellows that looks alright but I won't know until I do the dreaded flashlight test.

Dan Fromm · Aug 27, 2020

OP, re your four candidates, no, no, no and no. None will do what you need. Sorry.

As Charles and I said, focusing panels for 2x3 Graphics with Graflok backs are uncommon.

Cholentpot · Aug 27, 2020

Dan Fromm said:
OP, re your four candidates, no, no, no and no. None will do what you need. Sorry.

As Charles and I said, focusing panels for 2x3 Graphics with Graflok backs are uncommon.

So Dan, will any of these allow me to focus and swap in the 120 roll holder? Or to calibrate the rangefinder? If I can't shoot sheets so be it, I'll stick with 6x9 and won't cry too much.

Dan Fromm · Aug 27, 2020

Cholentpot said:
So Dan, will any of these allow me to focus and swap in the 120 roll holder? Or to calibrate the rangefinder? If I can't shoot sheets so be it, I'll stick with 6x9 and won't cry too much.

#4 will. So will the Mercury devices mentioned above. I have no idea how much they cost.

This https://www.ebay.com/itm/2X3-Graflo...-Adapter-for-Early-Speed-Graphic/392915057798 contains what you need.

This https://www.ebay.com/itm/Graflex-2-x-3-Spring-Back-Focusing-Hood-w-Special-Ground-Glass/224118612865 is a better deal.

This https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x3-Monorail-View-Camera/392920859652 isn't what you want but it looks very much like a Galvin. 2x3 Galvins have bail backs that open wide enough to accept roll holders like the one you have. No lens board but I believe they can be improvised. Perhaps the grandson would be happier with a real view camera. And then you, having been stuck on a Century Graphic deal, can pass the stick on. Or be honest and explain to potential buyers that it is incomplete.

If you keep the Century, by all means check the bellows. In my experience replacing a bellows is very difficult. Anyway, what should give you hope is that your vintage of Graphic has bellows made of a synthetic material that lasts very well. Very well indeed.

Cholentpot · Aug 27, 2020

Dan Fromm said:
#4 will. So will the Mercury devices mentioned above. I have no idea how much they cost.

This https://www.ebay.com/itm/2X3-Graflo...-Adapter-for-Early-Speed-Graphic/392915057798 contains what you need.

This https://www.ebay.com/itm/Graflex-2-x-3-Spring-Back-Focusing-Hood-w-Special-Ground-Glass/224118612865 is a better deal.

This https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x3-Monorail-View-Camera/392920859652 isn't what you want but it looks very much like a Galvin. 2x3 Galvins have bail backs that open wide enough to accept roll holders like the one you have. No lens board but I believe they can be improvised. Perhaps the grandson would be happier with a real view camera. And then you, having been stuck on a Century Graphic deal, can pass the stick on. Or be honest and explain to potential buyers that it is incomplete.

If you keep the Century, by all means check the bellows. In my experience replacing a bellows is very difficult. Anyway, what should give you hope is that your vintage of Graphic has bellows made of a synthetic material that lasts very well. Very well indeed.

Link #2 you provided looks like what I need. To be clear, I'd focus with this and the swap to the roll holder. Or focus and then slide in a film holder.

I like the look and compact feel of the Century Graphic. It's portable and I think a good place to start for me. If the bellows proves tight I think I'll invest in this system. I have a few hundred feet of 120 that needs to get used.

Dan Fromm · Aug 27, 2020

Cholentpot said:
Link #2 you provided looks like what I need. To be clear, I'd focus with this and the swap to the roll holder. Or focus and then slide in a film holder.

Yes, that's what you do. Open the hood, open the shutter, open the lens, focus and compose, close and cock the shutter, set shutter speed, stop the lens down to shooting aperture, remove the focusing panel (fold the hood carefully) and put it in your pocket, attach the roll holder, pull the dark slide out (far enough to expose the gate, don't remove it completely) and then shoot. Reinsert dark slide, wind the film on, ... Works best from tripod, becomes second nature with practice.

Cholentpot · Aug 27, 2020

Dan Fromm said:
Yes, that's what you do. Open the hood, open the shutter, open the lens, focus and compose, close and cock the shutter, set shutter speed, stop the lens down to shooting aperture, remove the focusing panel (fold the hood carefully) and put it in your pocket, attach the roll holder, pull the dark slide out (far enough to expose the gate, don't remove it completely) and then shoot. Reinsert dark slide, wind the film on, ... Works best from tripod, becomes second nature with practice.

Thanks, you've been most helpful.

I'm going to do a bellows test when it gets dark enough. This camera does have a funny lens though 101mm Graflex Graflar 4.5 that goes from bulb to 1/300. Below 1/4 it's not very snappy.

Dan Fromm · Aug 27, 2020

I b'lieve that the 101/4.5 Graflar is a triplet made by Rodenstock. Budget lens, apparently not the best but I've never had one so don't know this at first hand. I've tried out all of the other standard issue lenses but the 101/4.5 Optar. I have one but have never used it.

shutterfinger · Aug 27, 2020

[

Cholentpot said:
This camera does have a funny lens though 101mm Graflex Graflar 4.5 that goes from bulb to 1/300. Below 1/4 it's not very snappy.

Shutter needs a CLA. http://www.southbristolviews.com/pics/Graphic/manual-pdf/GraphexShutterService.pdf or send it to me for the CLA.

Dan Fromm · Aug 27, 2020

Charles, it should be in a Prontor, not a Graphex.

Cholentpot · Aug 27, 2020

shutterfinger said:
[

Shutter needs a CLA. http://www.southbristolviews.com/pics/Graphic/manual-pdf/GraphexShutterService.pdf or send it to me for the CLA.

I'll keep that in mind once I get the whole kit put together. There's no way I'm taking apart a lens and getting back together in working order.

Cholentpot · Aug 27, 2020

Dan Fromm said:
I b'lieve that the 101/4.5 Graflar is a triplet made by Rodenstock. Budget lens, apparently not the best but I've never had one so don't know this at first hand. I've tried out all of the other standard issue lenses but the 101/4.5 Optar. I have one but have never used it.

I've been shooting 1960's DuPont 16mm film out of a falling apart Kiev30 all summer. A budget lens doesn't daunt me much.

shutterfinger · Aug 27, 2020

If its a Prontor https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B1sPJkp-MdghNGM1aGY5akgtTmc?usp=sharing it will be a little more difficult to service. I've done them also.

Ohio · Aug 27, 2020

Cholentpot said:
Thanks Ohio (my home state, go local sports teams!) Camera says Graflex 120 Roll Holder notback thing. The 6x9 Ground Glass Back for Graflok 23 is what I'm looking for for focusing? How's this guy's shipping rates if I may ask?

It was reasonable---I don't remember the total. $55 plus shipping. He got it to me quick. I recall checking eSlay for the focus panel and they were pricier than what he was offering.

Using it is easy...Open the aperture all the way and use the T setting so the image shows on the inserted Mercury back. Focus (you may want to use a dark cloth/black t-shirt over your head). I check focus with a loupe because I have a 4x5 so I have one. Close the shutter, check my light meter for aperture and shutter speed and set both of those. I always use a cable release just because (and usually use a tripod). Swap out the Mercury back for the roll back and cock the shutter. Remove dark slide and when it's right, press the cable release to fire the shutter. Return dark slide, advance film, remove roll film back, and replace with Mercury back.

These steps are all based on memory but you should get the gist of it. I have a Kalart that's calibrated for the lens but I don't think I've ever used it. I planned to but I tried it this other way and I really enjoy it. I can see why someone would use it as a range finder because it's not heavy, though a bit awkward for me, but that's me and everyone is different.

I don't know how well the paper thing you have will work for focus because you have to account for the depth of the material between where the film is and the body of the camera. The Mercury back does that so you know if the image is in focus there, it will be/should be in focus on the film.

Here's the one I use most often:

Cholentpot · Aug 27, 2020

shutterfinger said:
If its a Prontor https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B1sPJkp-MdghNGM1aGY5akgtTmc?usp=sharing it will be a little more difficult to service. I've done them also.

Here it is. I'm almost afraid to ask what a CLA goes for on these old lenses. I did think of a great use of this setup for me, I'm going to run some 35mm through it for panorama shots. I saw mercury has modified RB backs to take 135 however I can't seem to find where they sell these things on the website.

Ohio · Aug 27, 2020

Lower right corner of the website, there's an envelope icon. If you select "Mailing List" from the navigation, it'll tell you to look at the lower right corner. Not the most intuitive contact us icon I've seen, but Zach is usually pretty responsive and seems like an ok guy. I'd buy from him again.

Cholentpot · Aug 27, 2020

Ohio said:
It was reasonable---I don't remember the total. $55 plus shipping. He got it to me quick. I recall checking eSlay for the focus panel and they were pricier than what he was offering.

Using it is easy...Open the aperture all the way and use the T setting so the image shows on the inserted Mercury back. Focus (you may want to use a dark cloth/black t-shirt over your head). I check focus with a loupe because I have a 4x5 so I have one. Close the shutter, check my light meter for aperture and shutter speed and set both of those. I always use a cable release just because (and usually use a tripod). Swap out the Mercury back for the roll back and cock the shutter. Remove dark slide and when it's right, press the cable release to fire the shutter. Return dark slide, advance film, remove roll film back, and replace with Mercury back.

These steps are all based on memory but you should get the gist of it. I have a Kalart that's calibrated for the lens but I don't think I've ever used it. I planned to but I tried it this other way and I really enjoy it. I can see why someone would use it as a range finder because it's not heavy, though a bit awkward for me, but that's me and everyone is different.

I don't know how well the paper thing you have will work for focus because you have to account for the depth of the material between where the film is and the body of the camera. The Mercury back does that so you know if the image is in focus there, it will be/should be in focus on the film.

Here's the one I use most often:View attachment 253362

Just ordered a back that Dan suggested. It's $20 more than the Mercury but it'll allow me to shoot sheets if I ever want to. The bellows are light tight as far as I can tell as I checked. This setup, if I use it for 35mm panorama is going to be far cheaper than getting an Xpan. I love kludging my film equipment, I'm looking forward to getting this thing running.

btaylor · Aug 27, 2020

One of my very first “good” cameras was a Baby Speed Graphic I bought with paper route money when I was about 12. Learned all about sheet film, holders, rangefinders, sportsfinders, focal plane vs leaf shutters, etc with it. The spring back was always a disappointment because I couldn’t use roll film with it (and couldn’t afford a Grafloc back much less a roll film holder!). Your 101mm lens is probably right for your rangefinder, so if you make sure it is calibrated at the film plane, that will take care of focusing (Kalarts are not hard to adjust). Then use the optical or sportsfinder to compose and you are good to go. I have a 2x3 focusing panel for a Grafloc back from a Graflex XL I no longer own if your eBay purchase doesn’t work out. I think I have a roll holder or two as well. I still have the Baby Speed with a nice 101mm Ektar and picked up a Century body for the Grafloc back. One of these days I’ll put them together. Have fun! (Btw, that is a Galvin 2x3 monorail linked to above. I had one and it worked pretty well with a roll film back)

New To Me Century Graphic Special. Help.

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency