New to calibration, help Needed

[Paul-H]

Hi all

I have the Spyder 4 calibration system and have followed to instructions to profile my Samsung Monitor and Epson 1500W printer and generally get good results with colour prints but have noticed that when I print B&W images the prints do come out quite a bit darker. I used the Spyder recommended setting of 90cd/m2 and have also tried going as low as 50cd/m2 but that is almost as low as my monitor will go, and the B&W prints still look brighter on the screen.

Or am I expecting to much from my low end Monitor & Printer, the Monitor only just covers sRGB if that makes any difference.

Anyone got any recommendations for getting my prints closer to what I am seeing on the screen.

Thanks for any help with this

Paul

 

[Doyle Thomas]

general rule is :if your prints are too dark it is because your monitor is too bright, adjust the brightness at the monitor and recal.

 

[Paul-H]

Hi thanks for the reply

I have tried that but to get it anything close to what I am seeing in printing have to have the monitors brightness set to its minimum setting, should I have to have it that low to be correct.

I am new to calibrating but that just seemed wrong, should I be setting it to something as low as 30cd/m2 which is the lowest my monitor will go to. It's so dark as to be too dark for colour prints but still too bright for black and white.

I have spent hours googling this issue without much success, it's almost like its a dark art and those who know are not telling, even datacolors own documentation is woefully lacking.

Thanks for your help

Paul

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Hi all

I have the Spyder 4 calibration system and have followed to instructions to profile my Samsung Monitor and Epson 1500W printer and generally get good results with colour prints but have noticed that when I print B&W images the prints do come out quite a bit darker. I used the Spyder recommended setting of 90cd/m2 and have also tried going as low as 50cd/m2 but that is almost as low as my monitor will go, and the B&W prints still look brighter on the screen.

Or am I expecting to much from my low end Monitor & Printer, the Monitor only just covers sRGB if that makes any difference.

Anyone got any recommendations for getting my prints closer to what I am seeing on the screen.

Thanks for any help with this

Paul

Does anyone know how to calculate the cd/m^2 value from a lightmnetwr's EV value?

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Hi all

I have the Spyder 4 calibration system and have followed to instructions to profile my Samsung Monitor and Epson 1500W printer and generally get good results with colour prints but have noticed that when I print B&W images the prints do come out quite a bit darker. I used the Spyder recommended setting of 90cd/m2 and have also tried going as low as 50cd/m2 but that is almost as low as my monitor will go, and the B&W prints still look brighter on the screen.

Or am I expecting to much from my low end Monitor & Printer, the Monitor only just covers sRGB if that makes any difference.

Anyone got any recommendations for getting my prints closer to what I am seeing on the screen.

Thanks for any help with this

Paul

This is quite common with newer bright screens.modern monitors are great with high contrast and luminance.That's why Ilimit myself to a monitor calibrationand follow it up with a simple luminance calibration for the paper.Isend out free full description to this process to anybody sending me an email request to rlambrec@ymail.com.:cool2:

 

[pschwart]

I believe the 1500W is a 6-color dye printer with only a single black channel, so it's not the ideal printer for fine b&w printing. Anyway, just calibrating your monitor is not enough -- your printer needs to be profiled, too. Are you sure you are specifying the correct printer profiles when you print?

 

[Paul-H]

Hi

The printer is profiled and yes the correct profile is being applied.

I do know the 1500 is not the best for monochrome with it only having the one black ink but once profiled it does produce a very neutral monochrome image.

I do suspect that this issue I am having might just be that I am working with trailing edge technology rather than leading edge, 6 colour printer, monitor that only just covers sRGB etc, just trying to make the most of the equipment I have available.

Sort of trying to put lipstick on a pig

Thanks again for all the help

Paul

 

[Paul-H]

Problem solved

Printed B&W image is now a match to the Monitor without effecting the colour ones.

Problem turned out to be the Monitor.

Like many I have two monitors attached to my system, one for the work space and one for all the tools etc.

The Main one is a 24 inch Samsumg T240 and the secondary is a 22 inch ACER AL2202W, both are calibrated with my Spyder4Elite.

I had one of those I wonder moments and shifted the Photoshop window over the the ACER and bingo it was an exact match to the print, so after a quick shift around on the desk I am now using the smaller ACER as my main Monitor and all is as it should be.

I just knew this was going to be something simple in the end, and now an even bigger reason to persuade SWMBO that I need that Dell Ultrasharp monitor.

On the subject of a new monitor how can you tell from looking at the specs that a given monitor will fully cover the Adobe1998 colour Gamet, because they don't say on the websites which is how I ended up with the two that I did and both of those only cover sRGB Do the Monitor makers have another way of describing the gamet their monitors will cover.

Thanks

Paul

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Hi

The printer is profiled and yes the correct profile is being applied.

I do know the 1500 is not the best for monochrome with it only having the one black ink but once profiled it does produce a very neutral monochrome image.

I do suspect that this issue I am having might just be that I am working with trailing edge technology rather than leading edge, 6 colour printer, monitor that only just covers sRGB etc, just trying to make the most of the equipment I have available.

Sort of trying to put lipstick on a pig

Thanks again for all the help

Paul

Paul,I'm with you and came to the same conclusion;color management and calibration is a black art and the once who know are not telling.I spoke to a number of people and companies at Photokina and they either don't know or they keepsuspiciously quiet. no book,I checked was much help either.authots just copy from each other and leave you with trial and error and huge equipment bills.I was lucky,bought an iMac and an Epson 38800 and they worked togrther under Photoshop CC right out of the box without any calibration.

 

[Evgenymv]

Hello! I bought an X-Rite Pulse ColorElite kit, which includes two software discs, a DTP20 and DTP94 spectrophotometer, but I can't use it because the former owner who sold it to me lost the serial number from the software. Contacting X-Rite - it was only advised to use ArgyllCMS. I have installed this program, so far I have only learned how to create a color patch table in the format.tif and, of course, print on a printer. But it's a shame that I can't use the more convenient X-Rite Pulse ColorElite program due to the lack of a serial number. It is not clear why X-Rite has classified the serial number for the program so much - after all, the program only works with its hardware, without it installing the program is meaningless.... In this regard, perhaps someone has an option - where to get the serial number for the X-Rite Pulse ColorElite program. I bought this program. I understand that the program runs for 14 days without registration, but it will be enough for me to profile the printer and monitor. Thank you.

 

[_T_]

If you’re going to calibrate your system, you have to do it on a regular basis. Only being able to calibrate your system for 14 days makes the entire idea of calibration pointless

 

[Pieter12]

If you’re going to calibrate your system, you have to do it on a regular basis. Only being able to calibrate your system for 14 days makes the entire idea of calibration pointless

Some pro preproduction shops calibrate every day.

 

[Evgenymv]

I agree that the system should be calibrated regularly, but how often should it be done? I understand that calibration is necessary when changing paper, changing ink, or refilling ink. However, the manufacturer of the X-Rite Pulse ColorElite program has stopped supporting it, and it is no longer possible to obtain a registration code even if you have the serial number. As an alternative, I can uninstall the X-Rite Pulse ColorElite program once a month, ensuring that no traces of it remain, and then reinstall it. This method is less convenient, but it is easier than using the ArgyllCMS command line.
P. S. I practice as an amateur, not a professional. Pentax k-70 camera, 4 lenses from wide angle to tele (600 mm), Epson L805 printer.

 

[koraks]

Welcome to Photrio!
I'd recommend learning to use Argyll. It's not as bad as it may look at first glance. I'm sure AI (ChatGPT etc.) can help you with it as well.

but how often should it be done? I understand that calibration is necessary when changing paper, changing ink, or refilling ink.

It depends on what we're talking about. It's often said that a monitor has to be calibrated regularly. You definitely have to re-calibrate if you change either the monitor or the graphics card. But personally, I see no discernible difference between monitor profiles made on the same hardware with over a year between the profiles. So in practice, the requirements are a lot less stringent (esp. for amateur use) than people may think. This is mostly because today's LCD monitors are pretty stable across their service life.

For the combination of printer + ink + paper you typically have to do the profiling only once for each combination. More so, I personally don't bother profiling different inkjet papers separately because they tend to render pretty similarly anyway, and I consider the profile I made for one paper to work well enough across various papers. However, if you are looking for absolutely optimal results, your experience may of course differ. For me it's good enough if I have a good match between what I see on the computer monitor and the physical print.

As to Argyll, I've not used it to create monitor profiles, but I have created printer/paper/ink profiles with it and that works wonderfully. While I also have the Xrite suite needed to do so, I find the Argyll workflow actually more flexible and it's easier to backtrack a step without losing a lot of time/work if something goes wrong at some point.

I understand there are GUI's available for Argyll that make the workflow more user-friendly, but I've not yet tried any. Command line works well enough; it's a bit of a puzzle, but as explained above, profiling is not necessarily a task you need to perform all that often.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Would you get better results if you allow the printer to do the auto adjustments?

 

[koraks]

You'll still need to profile it.

 

[Pieter12]

Monotors drift, lighting conditions change. So you need to recalibrate regularly.

 

[Evgenymv]

Many thanks to everyone who responded to my message. I will master Argyll. You're right, the command line gives you more options. I am very pleased that I found and subscribed to this forum.Thanks again. No further questions.

 

[koraks]

lighting conditions change

Those should not affect calibration or profiling. If they do, something is wrong with the measurement apparatus.

The drift in modern IPS monitors (the more common type) is quite minimal (read: negligible over its service life). For OLED it can be a different matter due to degradation of the organic compounds that make up the pixel sites, making annual calibration a sensible approach.

In IPS monitors esp. with the older CFL backlight there's the possibility of degradation of the backlight, which will not affect color rendition, but it will affect brightness (marginally). However, this will in practice go unnoticed unless you have two identical monitors side by side that for some reason degrade at a different rate.

@Evgenymv you're welcome; glad to hear you've found useful answers already!