New Rollei Owner Questions

[Lee Clark]

Hello All...

New here and to the world of MF/Rolleiflex. Haven't shot film for 22 years but have always wanted to try my hand at MF. I have the time and wanted to get started so I just bought the cleanest 3.5E with Xenotar that I could find for the money that did NOT have a meter. Hopefully I didn't over pay: https://tinyurl.com/mb5hs4o

They said everything is in working order and that the lenses were clean and clear. Figure it was worth a shot but a bit concerned b/c I don't quite peg Salvation Army as camera pros. I plan on a CLA with Harry Flennor if all seems well and first roll turns out ok. I found his book on Rolleis to be well worth the $10 for anyone getting into Rolleiflex.

On to my questions... It's model number 1864148. From what I can tell it's a 3.5E type 2 aka K4C. It seems conflicting bc some call it 3.5C. From what I understand it was made after the 3.5F was introduced for those who didn't want a meter. A little confused b/c some call it 3.5C and going by Harry's guide the C's had plastic shutter release locks and sync connector locks which break easily and can't be replaced... so not sure if I avoided a unit with this potential issue or ended up with the plastic bits here since it's referenced as two different model numbers.

Second thing... in the ad there is a diffuser in the case... this confuses me b/c this gal doesn't have a meter. Not sure what I'm missing here. Pics attached and more at link above from eBay auction.

Lastly... I see references to this model number being Bay II mounts and I see one reference that says the taking lens is Bay II and that the viewing lens is Bay III (see attached screen shot). Are any Rolleis made with mismatched Bays like this or is the info just incorrect? Can anyone confirm if it's Bay II? I've already sourced pars from all over the globe for Bay II so hoping and praying I didn't screw that up.

Appreciate any light shed onto these questions. It arrives tomorrow. Can't sleep tonight. Thanks again!

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

Congratulations!

About the diffuser: rejoice you have one!
It probably came with the case and it isn't needed for your camera.

About the bayonet, have a look here: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

BTW, between the 2 lenses, do you know what those numbers on the left wheel are? And the mechanism ofn the other wheel, do you know how it works?

 

[jimjm]

You're correct that this is the 3.5E Type 2 (K4C). My reference book "The Classic Rollei" by Phillips does mention that this model was also referred to as the 3.5C in some reports published by a former Francke & Heidecke senior employee a few decades ago, but doesn't indicate if there were any mechanical or cosmetic differences. If anyone knows for sure, it would be Harry Fleenor. I'm not sure about any plastic parts, but most any Rollei (including 'Cords) from this era are made to the highest quality standards.

This model could easily be upgraded with a meter after purchase, as many of the required internal components are built-in. The factory would replace the nameplate components and swap the focusing knob's film-reminder dial with a meter assembly. My guide states that both lenses are Bay II, so it appears you are good to go.

I have an older Automat MX and just love shooting with it. The results from any of the Zeiss or Schneider lenses are really great. Have fun with your new camera and welcome to APUG!

 

[Lee Clark]

Thanks gentlemen! Your help is much appreciated!

jimjim yeah I was thinking it was pre-wired if I was correct with the identification. Wonder how much it cost to add the meter.

Ricardo... Very familiar with shutter speeds and aperture. I went to film school but I just haven't shot anything other than Digital since then. Knowing next to nothing about Roleis is my problem. I've always wanted one though. On a side note my first film camera was an Olympus OM-1. My dad bought it in 1975 to take pics of me when I was born. He got the 1.4 so he could shoot in low light better without using a flash and hurting my eyes. I got into photography in grade school and he gave it to me to learn on. It's a prized possession. I shot it in high school year book staff and throughout college. It got a lot of use. I bought a Nikon D700 when my son was born. I think I'll pass the OM-1 on to him instead of the Nikon. Haha. That OM1 has never been serviced etc. and everything works perfectly like it did day one. It's a pretty awesome machine.

Thanks again guys!

 

[JPD]

It was sold as 3,5C in Europe and 3.5E in the Americas. It was the several years older 2,8C that had plastic locks for the shutter and flash contact. The only plastic parts on the 3,5C/E would be the lightmeter window and cover for its needle. The production of this model was stopped when the F models were introduced, but then there were the E2 and E3 models with removable viewing hoods.The E2 was based on the C/E and the E3 on the F bodies.

Don't bother with adding the lightmeter. Even if you can find one it would be several decades old, and the one for this model wouldn't be coupled to the shutter and aperture wheels. Expensive, slow to use and may fail to work. Use a hand-held meter instead.

Yes, the lenses take Bay II accessories. The Diffusor may come from another camera, or maybe this one once had a meter.

Excellent camera!

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

Ricardo... Very familiar with shutter speeds and aperture. I went to film school but I just haven't shot anything other than Digital since then. Knowing next to nothing about Roleis is my problem. I've always wanted one though. On a side note my first film camera was an Olympus OM-1. My dad bought it in 1975 to take pics of me when I was born. He got the 1.4 so he could shoot in low light better without using a flash and hurting my eyes. I got into photography in grade school and he gave it to me to learn on. It's a prized possession. I shot it in high school year book staff and throughout college. It got a lot of use. I bought a Nikon D700 when my son was born. I think I'll pass the OM-1 on to him instead of the Nikon. Haha. That OM1 has never been serviced etc. and everything works perfectly like it did day one. It's a pretty awesome machine.

Thanks! I wasn't asking about your knowledge or your story.
I wasn't talking either about the shutter speeds or the aperture values on the wheel, but what is on the face of those wheels. One has a series of numbers and the other has an oval with a small round wheel on the middle
See bottom of page 5 and pages 8-10 here: http://www.cameramanuals.org/rolleiflex/rolleiflex_guide-2.pdf
Now, do you know how to work with EVS?
It is a feature of your Rolleiflex that I really like.

 

[Dan Daniel]

As others have stated, this is an E series, not the earlier 2.8C.

Cases are often not original. People swap cases, find another case that fits and put it on for sale, etc. Your camera has the black plastic slug in the meter window. For fun put the diffusor on and post photos on the net saying that you were told this was a UV meter system developed by French police. Stand back and watch people argue....

Bay II. You are fine.

If the lens is clean and the camera works you didn't overpay. Use it for a bit before sending it off to see if it does need an overhaul.

Ricardo Miranda, the wheel with the silver oval: push in and rotate the inner ring until the oval is aligned. Release and now the shutter and aperture should be locked together. The numbers on the shutter dial are EV values. When locked, you can change aperture or shutter speed and the other will change to maintain the same exposure. Push the inner oval and the lock will be disengaged for making changes. Some people love this system, others don't and don't use it.

 

[Down Under]

The Rolleiflex E models were once known as the poor man's F. They are, I believe, just as good as any later model F, and can usually be bought at cheaper prices than the later models. As for the Xenotars, they are as fine lenses as you will ever want, just as good as the Zeiss Planars, but with somewhat of a lesser (and wholly undeserved) reputation for fine-line reproduction. In everyday use you would never notice any difference even if shooting the two lenses side by side, except for perhaps slightly higher contrast and crisper highlights in the Xenotar.

Rollei diffusers are sought after. Someone I know recently bought one on Ebay for A$90! Mine cost me A$20 at a swap meet and is merely an ornament to my E2, as the meter long ago passed away Some years ago I had an offer by a Melbourne camera repair shop to replace it, with one from circa 1960, but decided to pass on it, largely because of the cost ($160) and due to reliability issues. Apparently they were never that reliable for metering anyway.

Rolleiflexes are tough cookies. I bought one (a 3.5E2) in 1998 for A$270, which was then about half the going price for this model, as it has slight separation in two elements of the Planar lens. I had the camera serviced for A$99 (the good old days, sigh) and never bothered with the separation. To this day it still shoots perfect color and crisp, sharp black-and-white negatives. The case I got with it was for a 2.8F with meter, my E fits into it somewhat loosely but secure enough - I use the case (popularly known in its day as the Never Ready Case) to store the camera at home anyway. This case has a back flap and when I opened it I found a mint condition clear glass which fits into the camera back to flatten film. I've never used this item but it was a nice surprise gift. Over the years I bought a hood, all the B&W filters and the three Rolleinars which let you focus down to about 10 inches, also a polariser and my most recent find in an op shop, a complete Rolleikin kit in its original box with an instruction sheet dated 1949, a 35mm film back which seems to have not been used and works perfectly. I have yet to use it, but plan to take it out next weekend to shoot the brilliant autumn colors in the Australian bush.

Even if the lenses are good, the shutter speeds not too out of synch and everything else is in working order, your Rollei would still benefit from a good complete CLA by a competent repair person, when you can afford it. It will then most probably outlast you and can be a cherished heirloom item left in your will to someone deserving of it.

A word of caution. Like Hasselblads, Leicas and other fine European cameras, Rolleis are highly addictive and once acquired the Rolleiflex virus can never be fully eradicated. There seems to be no known cure for the illness, which may be psychological but certainly has physical symptoms. Notably the overwhelming urge to hold any Rolleiflex you come across. Resistance is futile. It's best to give in and just enjoy it. A Rolleiflex T in good user condition with a 16 exposure kit will be a good second acquisition...

 

[guangong]

I bought my Rollei 2.8F in the late 1960s. Almost immediately I lost the diffuser! After all these years my meter remains extremely accurate while the diffuser has never been missed. My repairman, a former Rollei mechanic in Germany, did make an adjustment to a cam to set the 1/500 setting because cameras sometimes left factory with this setting not optimally adjusted. And quiet! Very good for really close up candies...no need to lift camera up to eye. No audible "click“.

 

[BrianShaw]

"French police" version... Dan, you make me laugh!

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

Ricardo Miranda, the wheel with the silver oval: push in and rotate the inner ring until the oval is aligned. Release and now the shutter and aperture should be locked together. The numbers on the shutter dial are EV values. When locked, you can change aperture or shutter speed and the other will change to maintain the same exposure. Push the inner oval and the lock will be disengaged for making changes. Some people love this system, others don't and don't use it.

I already knew about this system.
I was wondering if he knew about it.

 

[cowanw]

Ah! the French Police system, designation "les Flic"
Francois lumiere integration controlle.

 

[Kodachromeguy]

Nice-looking 3.5E! Of course, in their listing, they did not remove the case and photograph the other sides of the camera. I've seen this often - why do ePrey sellers do this? Regardless, you got a great photographic instrument. I have a 3.5E only 4,000 cameras older than yours. I have had Rolleiflexes before, but I think this 3.5E is exceptional in its optical quality. In the 1950s and in through the 1960s, all Rolleiflexes were tested with film before leaving the factory, not just select models taken from the production line. Units that did not meet the standards were sent back for repair or lens replacement. A few hints:
1. The lenses use filters that are size Bayonet II or Bay II.
2. A new Bay II hood is made by Fotodiox, and it is very good quality. Buy it via Amazon.
3. A new leather strap with Rollei scissors clips is made by a Chinese company. It, too, is good quality.
4. I had my Rolleiflex cleaned and adjusted by Mark Hama (known as the Yashicamat expert). He undid damage done by an incompetent repair person. I recommend Mr. Hama highly.
5. Whatever you do, do not send your Rolleiflex to Krikor Maralian in New Jersey. He might have been the best decades ago, but he messed up twice on my camera in 2016, charged a fortune, and is hard to talk to or communicate the camera's problems. He simply needs to close his business - it's over.
6. A somewhat cheaper option for filters is to buy a Bay II - Series VI adapter and use inexpensive Series VI filters.
7. Dim viewing screen: that's a problem. I recommend the screens from Rick Oleson. He is very helpful with hints about installation and adjustment.

Have fun!!

Examples from my 3.5E with Tri-X film:
https://worldofdecay.blogspot.com/2016/12/the-tb-hospital-on-parnitha-greece.html
https://worldofdecay.blogspot.com/2016/11/the-heart-of-evil-birkenau.html

 

[jvo]

welcome to apug....

 

[Lee Clark]

Thanks for all the info guys! Just a quick update before I feed my kiddos and then I'll post more later...

The camera showed up today. It's totally incredible. It literally looks brand spanking new. I haven't found a scratch or wear sign yet. The photos were so bad. Everything works except the shutter speed for 1 second is more like 2.5 or 3 seconds and a time or two it never finished a full fire. All others including two seconds seem dead on. The lenses were clear and scratch free. Case is only thing with any signs of wear and I don't care about the case much. Other than that when focusing fast it makes the most faint of a noise... but hopefully a CLA takes care of that.

Here is the interesting bit... it came loaded with an old roll of GA120 that was on frame 3. Don't know a ton about that so I'll research to possibly see kinda how old it is or when it was last used before. I locked up on a tree (didn't have a meter or my dslr to meter with and had no idea what was in there) and used sunny 16 with various shutter speeds in hopes that I got a shot or two. Can't wait to see what those first two images are.

Here's potentially the sad part... it had a little dust on it so I grabbed a can of compressed air to dust it off. The freaking red straw blows off and hits the taking lens. ARR. There is a little mark there now that I hadn't noticed before. Not sure it was from the straw hitting it or if I had missed it. The straw was moving at a fast clip but not sure if a plastic straw could damage the lens or not. At any rate... I'll carefully look into how to clean it before I touch it but hopefully it comes off.

 

[Lee Clark]

Well the good news is I got out my loops and a flashlight and what I was worried is a new scratch from the compressed air can is just something that will wipe off. Potentially last time I use compressed air to get dust out if dials though?

 

[Dan Daniel]

Along with flying straws, compressed air can spit frozen propellant. Now THAT will make a mess of old lens coatings, I bet. Best to avoid canned air around cameras.

Also realize that the coatings on old lenses are much softer than today's coatings. You need to be very gentle and very clean and very methodical to avoid scratching. Here's a guide for telescope optics, and those people are NUTS about scratching. You'll even see used telescopes with 'never cleaned' in the description as a desirable thing- meaning no microscratches. Oh, avoid acetone for camera- it will eat paint and plastics.
http://www.televue.com/engine/TV3b_page.asp?id=103

Congrats on the condition. Not sure what kind of noise you are getting when focusing. And oh yeah, there is no 2 second shutter speed. It is either 1/2 second, or some models have numbers after 1 second for for the EV system but no actual 2 second mechanism.

 

[Lee Clark]

welcome to apug....

Thanks!

 

[Lee Clark]

Thanks! I wasn't asking about your knowledge or your story.
I wasn't talking either about the shutter speeds or the aperture values on the wheel, but what is on the face of those wheels. One has a series of numbers and the other has an oval with a small round wheel on the middle
See bottom of page 5 and pages 8-10 here: http://www.cameramanuals.org/rolleiflex/rolleiflex_guide-2.pdf
Now, do you know how to work with EVS?
It is a feature of your Rolleiflex that I really like.

Sorry... I didn't quite understand what you were saying. This day in age so many people don't know about shutter speed and aperture b/c of digital so I thought that was what you meant. Yeah I love this feature for sure. Appreciate you making sure I understand how it all operates. One thing I haven't seen much on is how the crank works the double exposure release... but also haven't bothered researching it either. Thanks for the link too!

 

[Lee Clark]

Even if the lenses are good, the shutter speeds not too out of synch and everything else is in working order, your Rollei would still benefit from a good complete CLA by a competent repair person, when you can afford it. It will then most probably outlast you and can be a cherished heirloom item left in your will to someone deserving of it.

A word of caution. Like Hasselblads, Leicas and other fine European cameras, Rolleis are highly addictive and once acquired the Rolleiflex virus can never be fully eradicated. There seems to be no known cure for the illness, which may be psychological but certainly has physical symptoms. Notably the overwhelming urge to hold any Rolleiflex you come across. Resistance is futile. It's best to give in and just enjoy it. A Rolleiflex T in good user condition with a 16 exposure kit will be a good second acquisition...[/QUOTE]

Thanks! Yeah I'm already madly in LOVE! I'm sending her in for sure. She deserves it. Haha. It's in such incredible shape... I hate to make things worse by moving parts around that aren't properly lubed and causing excess wear and tear. Worked on too many old cars perhaps. BUT... it's so clean... I'm already stressing about using it a lot. Haha. I literally think someone bought this... loaded a roll... took two shots and then it sat for 50 something years in it's case. No marks from filters or hoods ever having been put on etc.

I'm already addicted. I've spent more on filters/hoods/straps/rolleifix/rolleinar/film etc.. than I did on the camera. I'm now looking into the antique stores here so I can hit them up on a regular basis in hopes of finding another at some point.

 

[Lee Clark]

Along with flying straws, compressed air can spit frozen propellant. Now THAT will make a mess of old lens coatings, I bet. Best to avoid canned air around cameras.

Also realize that the coatings on old lenses are much softer than today's coatings. You need to be very gentle and very clean and very methodical to avoid scratching. Here's a guide for telescope optics, and those people are NUTS about scratching. You'll even see used telescopes with 'never cleaned' in the description as a desirable thing- meaning no microscratches. Oh, avoid acetone for camera- it will eat paint and plastics.
http://www.televue.com/engine/TV3b_page.asp?id=103

Congrats on the condition. Not sure what kind of noise you are getting when focusing. And oh yeah, there is no 2 second shutter speed. It is either 1/2 second, or some models have numbers after 1 second for for the EV system but no actual 2 second mechanism.

Thanks! Yeah I was using the air on the dials etc. and the board that holds the lenses not the lenses themselves. I saw dust and was wondering if that was what was making the slight creaking sounds as I did the focus. I knew these coatings were softer so that's why I worry about cleaning the little mark off. I'll let them clean it during the CLA and practice on something old and cheap for a while before i do it myself. Odd thing about the focus wheel creaking sound is that it is silent when the camera sits a bit. It's only if you move it a bit that it starts up. Just a slight creaking sound. Wouldn't hear it if someone was talking to you. I was in a silent room so I could hear everything really well.

Thanks for the link!

 

[Lee Clark]

Nice-looking 3.5E! Of course, in their listing, they did not remove the case and photograph the other sides of the camera. I've seen this often - why do ePrey sellers do this? Regardless, you got a great photographic instrument. I have a 3.5E only 4,000 cameras older than yours. I have had Rolleiflexes before, but I think this 3.5E is exceptional in its optical quality. In the 1950s and in through the 1960s, all Rolleiflexes were tested with film before leaving the factory, not just select models taken from the production line. Units that did not meet the standards were sent back for repair or lens replacement. A few hints:
1. The lenses use filters that are size Bayonet II or Bay II.
2. A new Bay II hood is made by Fotodiox, and it is very good quality. Buy it via Amazon.
3. A new leather strap with Rollei scissors clips is made by a Chinese company. It, too, is good quality.
4. I had my Rolleiflex cleaned and adjusted by Mark Hama (known as the Yashicamat expert). He undid damage done by an incompetent repair person. I recommend Mr. Hama highly.
5. Whatever you do, do not send your Rolleiflex to Krikor Maralian in New Jersey. He might have been the best decades ago, but he messed up twice on my camera in 2016, charged a fortune, and is hard to talk to or communicate the camera's problems. He simply needs to close his business - it's over.
6. A somewhat cheaper option for filters is to buy a Bay II - Series VI adapter and use inexpensive Series VI filters.
7. Dim viewing screen: that's a problem. I recommend the screens from Rick Oleson. He is very helpful with hints about installation and adjustment.

Have fun!!

Examples from my 3.5E with Tri-X film:
https://worldofdecay.blogspot.com/2016/12/the-tb-hospital-on-parnitha-greece.html
https://worldofdecay.blogspot.com/2016/11/the-heart-of-evil-birkenau.html

WOW! Nice work! Thanks for sharing! Can't wait for my film to arrive.

Yeah I don't know why they did that (not removing it from the case) other than being lazy or not know how and being worried about damaging something. They clearly took it as is and didn't even notice the film it had inside it. It is almost flawless. So far I only see one minor tiny scratch on the focus know but you'd strain to find it. I just don't know who dumps a camera like this off at Salvation Army... but I'd like to thank them!

Screen was nice outside today but came in tonight and it is very dim inside at night. Think I'll be looking into replacing it during the CLA.

Thanks for all the tips! I sourced an original Bay II Hood from Germany bc I wasn't sure if the one I saw on Amazon had identical functionality or not as far as fitting/woking with the filters etc. I'm not gonna lie.. it hurt a bit. Check on not using Krikor. Thanks!

 

[btaylor]

Concerning the Fotodiox lens hood from Amazon, I bought a Bay III for my 2.8D and it functions just like the original, good quality too. Just a heads up for any Rollei-heads that look this thread up in the future...

 

[Prest_400]

I'm curious but the 3.5E2 / Type 2 despite being a not so common regional sub-series, apprear quite a bit for sale. To me it seems a great model, and better than others (F) with the meter which adds weight and bulk thru that delicate plastic over the knob.
Dan knows as I discussed a bit with him the topic of 3.5E2's and agree on it being a solid model.

A word of caution. Like Hasselblads, Leicas and other fine European cameras, Rolleis are highly addictive and once acquired the Rolleiflex virus can never be fully eradicated. There seems to be no known cure for the illness, which may be psychological but certainly has physical symptoms. Notably the overwhelming urge to hold any Rolleiflex you come across. Resistance is futile. It's best to give in and just enjoy it. A Rolleiflex T in good user condition with a 16 exposure kit will be a good second acquisition...

Once acquired? The transmission of this pathology doesn't require close physical contact... A moderate level of exposure to its allures is enough for incubating the virus. Interestingly, it hasn't happened to me with other camera types.

Also realize that the coatings on old lenses are much softer than today's coatings. You need to be very gentle and very clean and very methodical to avoid scratching. Here's a guide for telescope optics, and those people are NUTS about scratching. You'll even see used telescopes with 'never cleaned' in the description as a desirable thing- meaning no microscratches. Oh, avoid acetone for camera- it will eat paint and plastics.
http://www.televue.com/engine/TV3b_page.asp?id=103

The latter is interesting and I hadn't yet heard off, and is logical.

Heck, I've even began to bid on Pre-war automats with uncoated Tessars. I've caught interest in having a Rollei that could've seen the war... And the uncoated optics despite the flare-proneness of it all, seem interesting as well as not having delicate coatings and maybe being less fungus prone.
I've been bidding here and there, and have a rather high limit set for a Vb with a 645 adapter set. Maybe I get one or none of them... People seem to have early bid wars and I just quit. I shouldn't get a Rollei really as I have a move soon!

 

[Kodachromeguy]

I'm curious but the 3.5E2 / Type 2 despite being a not so common regional sub-series, apprear quite a bit for sale. To me it seems a great model, and better than others (F) with the meter which adds weight and bulk thru that delicate plastic over the knob.
Dan knows as I discussed a bit with him the topic of 3.5E2's and agree on it being a solid model.

You are right. I recall that up to maybe 10 years ago, you seldom saw these E models without the meter. Most Rolleiflexes for sale then were the regular E with the uncoupled selenium meter or the F models. And now, lots of Es without meter. Did they come from studios or industrial settings where a meter was not needed? It's odd, indeed. Regardless, these are good models because many (most?) of the selenium meters have failed and, as far as I have read, no manufacturer makes selenium material on the appropriate substrate any more = unrepairable. And a modern hand-held meter is more convenient.

Note: for 3.5F or 2.8F owners, a Chinese company makes a replacement plastic cover dome for the meter. If it is anything like the replacement hoods, it is likely excellent quality. After all, plastic technology has advanced in 45 years, and molding technology can be set up easily in a plastics factory. Check the 'Bay.

Cheers,