New Rollei Owner Questions

Leigh B · Apr 1, 2017

Kodachromeguy said:
these are good models because many (most?) of the selenium meters have failed

All selenium meters will fail.

Selenium is an active emitter in that it generates an electric current when light hits it.
Over time this capacity decreases until it's no longer able to do that.

So the usable life of a meter depends entirely on how long it's been exposed to light.
A meter that sits out on a table by a window will die before one kept in a closed case.
Since we have no way of knowing how any given camera or meter has been stored...

Silicon sensors (that replaced selenium) do not suffer from this problem at all.

- Leigh

etn · Apr 1, 2017

Congrats onyour Rollei! in my opinion the meterless E is the sweet spot, as it is as good as the F but does not command such insane prices. You will have fun with it I'm sure.

One important point: be sure to use a Rolleifix whenever you use your Rollei with a tripod. Do not mount the camera directly on the tripod, there is a risk of bending the bottom/back plate. My 2 cents

Theo Sulphate · Apr 2, 2017

Leigh B said:
... Selenium is an active emitter in that it generates an electric current when light hits it.

Over time this capacity decreases until it's no longer able to do that.

So the usable life of a meter depends entirely on how long it's been exposed to light.
A meter that sits out on a table by a window will die before one kept in a closed case.
...

That's what I've heard as well and is the reason I've made little covers for my cameras' meters when they're not being used, ugly as they may be:

(2.8D [K7D] and 3.5F type 2 [K4E] with homemade meter cover)

I definitely prefer the non-metered Rolleiflexes.

Dan Daniel · Apr 2, 2017

Removing the meter block from an E Rolleiflex is easy. There is a small screw at the bottom edge. Back it out. Now push the meter block in and rotate it counterclockwise, then pull the block out. On the bottom of the meter block are two headed studs that go into keyhole slots. Electrical connections are made with metal contacts, not wires.

Now put a slug of some sort into the hole.

I say E series because I haven't done this on an F series and so am not certain that it is a similar mechanism.

Prest_400 · Apr 2, 2017

Kodachromeguy said:
Did they come from studios or industrial settings where a meter was not needed? It's odd, indeed. Regardless, these are good models because many (most?) of the selenium meters have failed and, as far as I have read, no manufacturer makes selenium material on the appropriate substrate any more = unrepairable. And a modern hand-held meter is more convenient.

Strange as they went out of vogue long ago (1980s?) as professional use. But it's curious that I notice quite a few E2's around.
Maybe making an alternate meter out of Silicon cells (no battery like the Sekonic Studio Deluxe) could be an interesting hobby project. For myself, I'd go unmetered. Or when I become rather affluent, try out a 2.8 FX-GX with modern TTL!

etn said:
Congrats onyour Rollei! in my opinion the meterless E is the sweet spot, as it is as good as the F but does not command such insane prices. You will have fun with it I'm sure.

I've been seeing a listing on local classifields of an undescript Rollei for 290€ in tatty condition... Leather looks oily and smooth but not that much paint wear. Upon a closer look I was puzzled because it was unmetered, has a Planar 3.5 and interchangeable hood. Turns out it may be an F as per Rolleiclubs "can come metered or unmetered".

A bit of a risky buy (would need it shipped) as it could come with fungus, mechanical gumming or even an evil curse. Eager to negotiate, I sent the seller a lowball of 150 so let's see.

I liked a comment I saw on Youtube: Rolleis are not yours, you just take care of them for a while. As all the bidding I've done lately is only to raise prices and no wins, I've had fun reading about them.
Eg, it's incredible how still excellent a 1937 automat is. That thing could have seen a lot in its history.

Sirius Glass · Apr 2, 2017

Welcome to APUG from a Hasselblad user.

Kodachromeguy · Apr 2, 2017

Leigh B said:
All selenium meters will fail.

silicon sensors (that replaced selenium) do not suffer from this problem at all.

- Leigh

There is a difference, though. The silicon and older cadmium sulfide (CDS) sensors change resistance of a current. So they need a battery and circuitry to send a current through the cell and then display the output. In contrast, the selenium cell provides the current at an extremely low voltage, and a meter or needle of some sort displays this current. From what I have read, often the problem with selenium meters is corrosion of the backing material or corrosion where wires attach to the backing plate. I have no experience with the Sekonic 398 selenium meters - do ones older than, say, 20 years, still work accurately?

Alan Gales · Apr 2, 2017

First off I am by no means a Rolleiflex expert. I own a Mamiya C220f TLR which I really like because I can change the lenses. I admit that I have lusted after a Rolleiflex ever since I held one of my buddy's cameras.

I have done some research off the internet and this is what I have found. The E is older and less expensive but it has a non removable hood. The later E2 and E3 cameras lack a meter which the original E has. The E2 and E3 cameras do have a removable hood so you can change the focussing screen yourself instead of having a technician do it. Also a camera with a removable hood is easier to clean. The original E hood easily folds with 2 fingers. The E2 and E3 hoods don't fold as easy. I'm guessing they are more like the Mamiya TLR hoods? I wouldn't worry about a meter since any that still work are probably not very accurate.

From what I have seen it looks like you paid a good price for the camera you bought. If the camera is as nice as advertised then you should be very happy.

Remember that what I am telling you is what I have found on the internet and we all know everything we read is not always accurate.

Lee Clark · Apr 10, 2017

etn said:
Congrats onyour Rollei! in my opinion the meterless E is the sweet spot, as it is as good as the F but does not command such insane prices. You will have fun with it I'm sure.

One important point: be sure to use a Rolleifix whenever you use your Rollei with a tripod. Do not mount the camera directly on the tripod, there is a risk of bending the bottom/back plate. My 2 cents

Thanks! I sourced one and waited for it to arrive before tripod use! Appreciate the tip!

Lee Clark · Apr 10, 2017

I've shot several roles of film and am very impressed. The original mystery role didn't have anything on the first two exposures. I sunny 16'd some trees for the rest of the roll guessing film speeds. It came out with a horrible color shift (the film was decades old). I could tell the lens was sharp from that roll though. Since have shot several rolls. Amazing little camera. Very sharp... getting perfect exposures... focusing is a breeze. Getting ready to send off for a CLA. Hard to let it go so soon b/c I want to get to know it well... but I really want the CLA done.

I have two follow up questions that I haven't seen many answers for from research... If you guys don't mind.

I'm trying to source a strap. The alligator clips kind of scare me. Are these reliable? It seems like if one half of one side fails you're camera is plunging to the ground. Maybe they're highly reliable. I've researched and seen plenty of threads with strap recommendations but no one talking about if the alligator clips are reliable. I want something I can take off and on fast. I was eyeing new leather straps with the alligator clips but I just don't trust them yet. Any thoughts on that? I've seen some other methods for straps with a fast disconnect but most have metal too close to the camera for my taste.

One more question if you guys don't mind... tomorrow I'm shooting some Ilford Delta 100 Pro. I wanted to overexpose a bit to test that out and I also wanted to experiment with my medium yellow filter so I start to get an idea of what I get from that. Curious about what I should shoot this at. It looks like with the filter alone I should be down to 64 instead of 100 then whatever adjustment I make for the overexposure. Any thoughts on a good place to start with this? I've seen recos on going down a stop for overexposure and then the info on what to use the filter at but wasn't sure how I should handle doing both together. Thanks in advance for any insight!

Dan Daniel · Apr 10, 2017

Lee Clark said:
I'm trying to source a strap. The alligator clips kind of scare me. Are these reliable? It seems like if one half of one side fails you're camera is plunging to the ground. Maybe they're highly reliable. I've researched and seen plenty of threads with strap recommendations but no one talking about if the alligator clips are reliable. I want something I can take off and on fast. I was eyeing new leather straps with the alligator clips but I just don't trust them yet. Any thoughts on that? I've seen some other methods for straps with a fast disconnect but most have metal too close to the camera for my taste.

One more question if you guys don't mind... tomorrow I'm shooting some Ilford Delta 100 Pro. I wanted to overexpose a bit to test that out and I also wanted to experiment with my medium yellow filter so I start to get an idea of what I get from that. Curious about what I should shoot this at. It looks like with the filter alone I should be down to 64 instead of 100 then whatever adjustment I make for the overexposure. Any thoughts on a good place to start with this? I've seen recos on going down a stop for overexposure and then the info on what to use the filter at but wasn't sure how I should handle doing both together. Thanks in advance for any insight!

The Op/tech pro loop connectors have a cloth loop that can be pushed through the slot on Rolleiflex cameras. The strap falls away from the focus hood, one of the attractions of the alligator straps. You can use the neoprene center section. I made my own center section using the clip connectors and a 3/4 inch web strap. Ican also connect just gthe two small connector sections and have a wrist strap.

The alligator clips are perfectly safe. What is NOT safe is an old leather strap- often dried and fragile. Best to get a replacement made by a shoe repair or leather worker.

Try 50 or lower for the Delta 100. The filter itself is generally considered 1 full stop. I find it a somewhat contrasty film to begin with so you might want to underdevelop a touch at first. But really, experience on your own system is the only reliable answer.

Oh, try the Rollei 'light green' (hellgrun) filter with the Delta 100 if you can. Yellow-green basically and can give a nice look.

btaylor · Apr 10, 2017

Of course you need to compensate for the filter. Then why don't you bracket some exposures and see what works best? I usually go in 1/2 increments.

This can be very important. In my testing of Arista 200 speed film I found I have to rate it at 40 ISO to get proper density. This was after measuring shutter speeds exactly and testing for correct developing times. Burn a few frames and find out what works best for you!

Lee Clark · Apr 10, 2017

Dan Daniel said:
The Op/tech pro loop connectors have a cloth loop that can be pushed through the slot on Rolleiflex cameras. The strap falls away from the focus hood, one of the attractions of the alligator straps. You can use the neoprene center section. I made my own center section using the clip connectors and a 3/4 inch web strap. Ican also connect just gthe two small connector sections and have a wrist strap.

The alligator clips are perfectly safe. What is NOT safe is an old leather strap- often dried and fragile. Best to get a replacement made by a shoe repair or leather worker

Try 50 or lower for the Delta 100. The filter itself is generally considered 1 full stop. I find it a somewhat contrasty film to begin with so you might want to underdevelop a touch at first. But really, experience on your own system is the only reliable answer.

Oh, try the Rollei 'light green' (hellgrun) filter with the Delta 100 if you can. Yellow-green basically and can give a nice look.

Thanks! Brilliant what you did with the strap! Might do something like that. Good to know the clips are safe too. I'll add that filter to my growing list. haha.

So just to clarify b/c I didn't ask my second question well... When using filters and trying to overexpose... should I be calculating the overexposure first or the filter first? Pretend I want to shoot 400 at half box speed and calculate filter at 2/3. (Actually when I just calculated it both ways I seem to get the same answer but theoretically I expected it to vary some.)

Thanks again!

Lee Clark · Apr 10, 2017

btaylor said:
Of course you need to compensate for the filter. Then why don't you bracket some exposures and see what works best? I usually go in 1/2 increments.

This can be very important. In my testing of Arista 200 speed film I found I have to rate it at 40 ISO to get proper density. This was after measuring shutter speeds exactly and testing for correct developing times. Burn a few frames and find out what works best for you!

Will bracket for sure! Was just hoping that carefully calculating where to begin would get me closer ballpark wise. Lost of experimentation ahead for sure!

Thanks again!

etn · Apr 11, 2017

I bought a very nice strap from https://deadcameras.com
(The guy's in Portugal if I remember correctly). A Rollei strap with scissor clips costs €108. The website shows it as "Limited edition",
in my understanding it's because he re-purposes clips he finds on the 2nd hand market, therefore he cannot rely on a stable supply of clips.
The great thing about this strap is that you get 2: a shoulder and a hand strap. Very convenient. Besides, quality is top-notch.

I am unrelated to the guy, I am just really pleased with my purchase. Apologies if this kind of "advertisement" goes against forum rules.

Dan Daniel · Apr 11, 2017

Lee Clark said:
So just to clarify b/c I didn't ask my second question well... When using filters and trying to overexpose... should I be calculating the overexposure first or the filter first? Pretend I want to shoot 400 at half box speed and calculate filter at 2/3. (Actually when I just calculated it both ways I seem to get the same answer but theoretically I expected it to vary some.)

Ok, then I settle on a film speed first. Then apply any filter factor to this number. Simply because film speed will be pretty constant (yeah, zone system and development times can affect but minor). Filters come and go. Quick tests in my head get me to the same ISO no matter which order I use, but again, life will be easier if you use the film speed as the starting point and then add filter factors on a case by case basis.

Helinophoto · Apr 11, 2017

Congratulations with your 'flex ^^

Just a few words of advice; Always keep the camera at the closest-focusing distance when you are not shooting. If the camera gets a bang from the correct angle, and is set at infinity or similar, the whole board can become crooked and stuck and that is an expensive repair (ask me now I know).
Always keep a strap on it and hold the strap somehow, these cameras will keel over very easily and if you have them on a table or similar....well, ask me how I know

I don't trust the aligator-lugs for two reasons: Original straps are brittle and old and may snap from a good word and the system just seems flimsy in general.

I have one of these on my 2.8F these days, can't get more secure than this (and it looks cool too):
I use my diffuser for incident readings, my meter is off by around 0.5 stops, so it's perfectly usable as long as one err on the side of overexposure.

Chinese, got it from eBay (typically: http://www.ebay.com/itm/CAM1843-Cot...466798?hash=item41b5f2ddae:g:Ej0AAOSwxp9W6mfF )

Good luck, they really are a hoot to use ^^

Kodachromeguy · Apr 11, 2017

I think there is a lot of confusion here about Rolleiflexes:
1. The metal scissors clips are very secure. I used them for 30 years and they are handy because you can easily unclip from the Rollei case and clip to the body. But the old leather straps are weak. Solution: take off the leather and attach a modern nylon web strap. Use tiny rivets or machine screws.
2. Filter factors: near the back of the manual (p. 56 on my 3.5 manual), there is a page titled, "Rollei filters for black and white shots." For example, for med. yellow with pan film, it shows -1.5. That means open up 1.5 f-stops. You will need to test your particular film, but the table is a reasonable guide.
The Rolleiflex is really brilliant. Have fun!

Huss · Apr 11, 2017

Igor camera is a great resource for used gear. Everything I've bought from him has been excellent.

http://www.igorcamera.com/classic_rolleiflex_tlr.htm

No affiliation etc etc

c41 · Apr 11, 2017

Kodachromeguy said:
I think there is a lot of confusion here about Rolleiflexes:
2. Filter factors: near the back of the manual (p. 56 on my 3.5 manual), there is a page titled, "Rollei filters for black and white shots." For example, for med. yellow with pan film, it shows -1.5. That means open up 1.5 f-stops. You will need to test your particular film, but the table is a reasonable guide.
The Rolleiflex is really brilliant. Have fun!

I don't have a manual and I'm a relative newcomer to the wonderful world of TLR, (congratulations to the OP.)

But... aren't the numbers on the Rollei filters EV values not F stops? i.e; -1.5 is 2/3 of a stop, not 1 and a half (seems a lot for a yellow filter.)
Would be great to get a definitive answer on that, internet wisdom seems mixed on the issue.

And does anyone know the factor for hellgrun, mine has no numbers to give me a clue.

I agree about the straps, I had a new leather made from the original clips and it's perfect again.

jimjm · Apr 11, 2017

My yellow Bay 1 filter has a filter factor of 1.5, which means an additional 2/3 stop exposure required. (1/2 stop is usually good enough for me). This is a fairly pale yellow filter.
Many standard yellow filters (B/W, Hoya, etc) have a filter factor of 2, which means 1 additional stop of exposure, or double the exposure.

Helinophoto · Apr 11, 2017

Not sure. The factor on my red-filter is 3, which correspond pretty well with the number of f-stops required to compensate with my regular #25 red filter for my other lenses.
As far as I gather, the numbers on the filter correspond to the dial on my 2.8F, which, in turn, moves the needle on my meter accordingly.

And since it's the only system I use it on, I've never really bothered to check the actual filter-factor in f-stops. (I have two leather-packs for my 2.8f and 3.5 automat which contain 3-4 color-filters, plus rolleinar 2 and 3 sets).

Dan Daniel · Apr 11, 2017

I use 1 stop for the hellgrun. The Rolleiflex E manual recommends -1 stop for pan film and -1.5 stop for ortho film.

If you go to a typical Rolleiflex manual from the 1950s- Automats, C, D, E- F? there is a section at the end which will discuss the standard filters.

The problem I have had with filter factors is that film spectral response has changed over the years. For example, skies using Tri-X are not rendered the same now as in the 1970s. I find Fuji Neopan ACROS has almost no response to a yellow filter. And Ilford Delta 400 responds nicely to the hellgrun- you can see a dip in its spectral response in the green area so maybe that is why I like it. Delta 100 has a similar dip in the green.

c41 · Apr 11, 2017

Thanks all, that makes perfect sense. I'll go with my gut on b&w filters rather than agonize too much over listed ratings.
I like the sound of Hellgrun/Delta, it's a lovely enough film as is.

I am loving the TLR! Enjoy yours Lee..

Robbie Bedell · Apr 13, 2017

Lee, IF you decide to send your camera out for a cla you might want to consider Paul Ebel at Classic Camera Services in Wisconsin (651-335-8759. I have the exact same Rollie as you. Paul made my camera run as new with great communication and timing. I highly recommend him...Robbie PS: I also bought a 'second' Maxwell Bright Screen for mine directly from Bill Maxwell.. It is the difference between night and day!

New Rollei Owner Questions

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