New RA4 colour paper

[BMbikerider]

On the website of a supplier I use in UK (Morco.co.uk) there was a new RA4 colour printing paper which I have never heard of before:-
Champion Eurolight RA4 Colour Paper
I know Champion make generic RA4 chemicals so is this a new resurgence for colour printing?

It apparently is only available in roll up to 12" wide, but not in cut sheets. Not a problem for me, as I have an efficient home made dispenser that will take up to 12" wide rolls. Any thoughts out there?

 

[koraks]

Finishing, surface options, packaging and price point make me suspect this could be rebranded Fuji Crystal Archive (perhaps Supreme). The fact that it is manufactured in Europe would be consistent with this (FujiFilm Europe in The Netherlands - coincidentally just around the corner from my place..).

 

[pentaxuser]

Finishing, surface options, packaging and price point make me suspect this could be rebranded Fuji Crystal Archive (perhaps Supreme). The fact that it is manufactured in Europe would be consistent with this (FujiFilm Europe in The Netherlands - coincidentally just around the corner from my place..).

If this is the case and it is simply a roll(s) of Fuji CA then it should have the Fuji label printed on the back or is it a simple matter to buy rolls from Fuji where you can specify no printing or ask Fuji to print Champion EuroLight on it. It is much cheaper than other RA4 paper I have seen which makes you wonder how happy Fuji would be to sell paper to Champion so it can undercut Fuji

Until someone reports that they have bought Champion EuroLight we won't know the answer to the printing

pentaxuser

 

[koraks]

I'm pretty sure Fuji will do toll manufacturing or rebranding for you and print whatever you want on the backside if you pay for it and purchase a decent volume. The retail price of this Champion paper is virtually identical to Fuji Crystal Archive (regular, not supreme)so there doesn't seem to be much undercutting going on if Champion gets their paper from Fuji.

 

[BMbikerider]

I spoke to the Manager of Morco earlier this morning and indeed it is Fuji. Even if they are undercutting Fuji retail prices, this is the only outlet I have seen and it may be another way for Fuji to make more printing paper and sell it even at a reduced cost. Larger quantities as we know almost always means it can be made/sold cheaper. Whatever it is this can really only be a good thing.

 

[koraks]

If it is Fuji, it's worthwhile checking if it's plain Crystal Archive or Supreme. I assume the former. I find Supreme vastly superior to regular CA-II which has never produced a true black for me. Supreme is better, Kodak Endura is best (but comes with high saturation and is therefore a little more finicky to balance properly IME).

 

[BMbikerider]

I ran out of the Kodak paper on my roll a month ago so ago and had to buy a box of Fuji and with Kodak RA4 developer I had no problem with the blacks. What I did notice though was the FUJI paper was slightly affected by my DUKA safelight and had to reduce the output to avoid a little fogging.

 

[mnemosyne]

If it is Fuji, it's worthwhile checking if it's plain Crystal Archive or Supreme. I assume the former. I find Supreme vastly superior to regular CA-II which has never produced a true black for me. Supreme is better, Kodak Endura is best (but comes with high saturation and is therefore a little more finicky to balance properly IME).

According to the data published by Fuji the only difference between plain Fuji CA and Supreme should be the thicker paper base of the latter. Calibration data for laser printers and target densities (2.00) were identical last time I checked. Spectral sensitivity and dye density curves are also identical. But I admit I have no first hand experience with Supreme, only plain CA and DP-II.

 

[koraks]

Yeah, the datasheets say that image quality should be similar, but I didn't get good results with CAII (original CA printed fine however). Haven't tried DPII. Both supreme and supreme HD work very well for me. I also read about others complaining that CAII is anemic.

 

[halfaman]

Yeah, the datasheets say that image quality should be similar, but I didn't get good results with CAII (original CA printed fine however). Haven't tried DPII. Both supreme and supreme HD work very well for me. I also read about others complaining that CAII is anemic.

Do you cut yourself the sheets?

I find also CA type 2 soft but sometimes you may need it, I am right now trying to print a too contrasty negative and I think CA type 2 would fit better than my usual DPII. It will be the paper in my next printing session in addition to a contrast mask.

 

[koraks]

Do you cut yourself the sheets?

Yes. The only paper I can get in pre-cut sheets is CAII which I don't like.

I find also CA type 2 soft

I'm not complaining about soft contrast, if that's what you mean. The problem is the lack of real blacks; they're always slightly mottled and dark brown/green. It's only visible in good (ample) light, but I don't like making prints that only stand up well against being viewed under poor light.

 

[BMbikerider]

I understand that the paper is actually cut off a roll of Fuji RA4. Where it is done I have no idea. Another dealer in UK called Firstcall is also selling RA4 in boxes using the Logo of ADOX

 

[nickandre]

FYI the Fuji paper gives totally whack results at room temp whereas the Kodak paper is good down to 72F. It's a bit of a bummer that Kodak is harder to acquire.

 

[pentaxuser]

FYI the Fuji paper gives totally whack results at room temp whereas the Kodak paper is good down to 72F. It's a bit of a bummer that Kodak is harder to acquire.

Can you tell us what the effects are at room temp that you have found? I presume that you found no way to solve this problem. Which Fuji paper was this that gave you the issue? Were you able to establish at what temperature the problems disappeared?

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[AgX]

I understand that the paper is actually cut off a roll of Fuji RA4. Where it is done I have no idea. Another dealer in UK called Firstcall is also selling RA4 in boxes using the Logo of ADOX

Concerning the latter the boxes bear "Made in Germany". Though in this case it only refers to the cutting and packaging.
Adox state that it is Fujicolor Crystal Archive.

 

[nickandre]

Can you tell us what the effects are at room temp that you have found? I presume that you found no way to solve this problem. Which Fuji paper was this that gave you the issue? Were you able to establish at what temperature the problems disappeared?

Thanks

pentaxuser

Weird color crossover effects -- if you balance for the mid tones I would get pink/magenta highlights and blue looking blacks that didn't achieve full black. Acceptable only for weird artsy holga photos on expired film, and even then just bad. I found an old print but it's not a great example of the problems due to the composition but you can definitely see the weird dark colors. It looked truly terrible. On the other hand Kodak papers produced absolutely beautiful results in trays. IIRC PE said that Kodak tested down to 72F. (The poor Fuji results are potentially confounded by the fact that they were my earliest color work but it's definitely weird.)

I was running in trays (small laundry room with no ventilation of course) and when Photo Engineer informed me that Kodak papers work fine at room temp I sold the rest of my Fuji on eBay and went on from there. I think I also discarded many of the Fuji prints once I made acceptable ones on Kodak paper. You'd have to check Fujis spec on what they support processing temperature-wise. I've never bothered since I don't own a roller transport machine and trays are easier. Bit of a bummer that all the off-brand photo papers are Fuji and Kodak doesn't make cut sheets anymore. I have a stack of sheets of Kodak from the last run of cut sheets back in 2010 or whenever and some dude on eBay is cutting metallic 16x20 sheets of Kodak paper DIY so I bought two boxes of those.

 

[Wayne]

FYI the Fuji paper gives totally whack results at room temp whereas the Kodak paper is good down to 72F. It's a bit of a bummer that Kodak is harder to acquire.

What paper exactly are you referring to? I use Fuji CA at 70 F all the time

 

[nickandre]

What paper exactly are you referring to? I use Fuji CA at 70 F all the time

Weird. Mine says “Fujicolor Professional Paper” on the back of it.

Edit: wrong receipt that was film lol. The paper I believe I printed this on is “Fujicolor Crystal Archive Super P”

it would be great news if I didn’t have to cut down Kodak rolls…I suppose I could try again to see if I was doing anything foolish at the time. Photo Engineer was the one that suggested the Kodak papers were routinely tested at lower temps than Fuji.

 

[nickandre]

Here’s the Fuji RA4 spec. No mention of colder temps: https://www.fujifilm.eu/fileadmin/c...icals/Photochemicals_RA4/TB_RA4_E17_09-13.pdf

kodak doesn’t mention different temps either: https://imaging.kodakalaris.com/sites/prod/files/files/resources/j39.pdf

 

[DREW WILEY]

Wrong data sheet if you want something ordinary RA4 ! Kodak RA/Rt chem has a number of nearly identical clones, and works superbly with Fuji papers too. But Fuji makes a wide variety of papers, even in the Crystal Archive category. If the colors are way off, weird, or crossed over, it ain't the fault of the paper unless it's outdated.

 

[nickandre]

Wrong data sheet if you want something ordinary RA4 ! Kodak RA/Rt chem has a number of nearly identical clones, and works superbly with Fuji papers too. But Fuji makes a wide variety of papers, even in the Crystal Archive category. If the colors are way off, weird, or crossed over, it ain't the fault of the paper unless it's outdated.

Good to hear — do you have any RA4 info from Fuji or Kodak talking about lower temps?

 

[DREW WILEY]

I'd have to look through some old binders, but there probably is the same standardized chart somewhere in Kodak's web archives. But if you don't mind me asking, why the need for a lower working temp? It's easier to sustain a slightly elevated temp than a lower one unless you're stuck with a 20C automated mixing valve. I personally standardize on 30C for RA4. Let me fish around a bit and see if I can come up with something.

 

[nickandre]

I'd have to look through some old binders, but there probably is the same standardized chart somewhere in Kodak's web archives. But if you don't mind me asking, why the need for a lower working temp? It's easier to sustain a slightly elevated temp than a lower one unless you're stuck with a 20C automated mixing valve. I personally standardize on 30C for RA4. Let me fish around a bit and see if I can come up with something.

It would be 10% of a nightmare keeping a 16x20 tray of chemistry at the right temp but I suppose it should be doable. Room temp means no heating contraptions, just easier, and the process worked fine for me.

I spent some time digging for PE's comment on this. I found this one but I recall a bit more depth.

 

[koraks]

My default RA4 paper is crystal Archive supreme. Prints fine at room temperature.

 

[nickandre]

My default RA4 paper is crystal Archive supreme. Prints fine at room temperature.

Do folks printing on Fuji use their developer or Kodak's?