New (old) Rolleicord, what's wrong with this picture?

[smokeandnomirrors]

Hi Guys,

I bought a few TLRs online both listed in Like New condition. One of them really is, the other one, hmmm, nah.

Here are a couple of shots from a Rolleicord Vb that has some kind of problem with film advance and is back in the shop. These are scans from the shop that developed the film, I don't have any of that kind of gear here.

Film used was Harman Phoenix 200.

I can explain the color shift in the first shot. The sync jack on the camera didn't work so I resorted to the halogen modeling light on one of my strobes.

The second shot was out the balcony on a dreary day. I can't explain the color problem in that one but the level of overall exposure matches what I remember about the scene.

What bothers me about both is though the focus looks kinda ok, I can't tell if the lack of clarity of the courtyard shot is just due to film grain from insufficient light or if there might be something wrong with the taking lens. Or, it could be that the scans are just low-res, they did have better options but after the issues with the camera I didn't want to pay for fancy scans of a messed-up roll.

Would appreciate your analysis and especially if you know what Rolleicord shots should look like.

I'm sorry if this is not the right subforum, I was not able to figure out where to post this.

Thank you,

Joe

 

[koraks]

Looks like there's a light leak at the back of the camera; see the vertical bar on the right of both images.
The second image indicates a film transport issue due to the overlapping frame; you probably photographed the balcony scene twice (at least) and two of these images ended up partly overlapping (note top edge).

Frame #1 is also underexposed but that's a different issue; as you said, it's due to the lighting setup. Don't worry about that for now.

I can't tell if the lack of clarity of the courtyard shot is just due to film grain from insufficient light

Mostly scanning (these are pretty poor scans) and film choice (Phoenix is rather grainy). Most of it is the poor scans though.

There are likely issues with this camera that need sorting out.

 

[smokeandnomirrors]

Looks like there's a light leak at the back of the camera; see the vertical bar on the right of both images.

Thank you, I noticed that after I posted the pictures. I sent a copy of both the scans to the service department a few minutes ago, so hopefully they will resolve that along with the other issues.

The second image indicates a film transport issue due to the overlapping frame; you probably photographed the balcony scene twice (at least) and two of these images ended up partly overlapping (note top edge).

Yes, I couldn't get the film to advance, it jammed on half the roll, and I was only able to get it to work by enabling multiple exposure mode. I had the camera on a tripod.

Frame #1 is also underexposed but that's a different issue; as you said, it's due to the lighting setup. Don't worry about that for now.


Mostly scanning (these are pretty poor scans) and film choice (Phoenix is rather grainy). Most of it is the poor scans though.

There are likely issues with this camera that need sorting out.

Thanks for your help! Haven't shot film in probably 40 years and these are my first TLRs. They actually offered me my money back when I brought the Rolliecord in and they saw how it was graded didn't match reality. But I prefer to have the camera in good condition. So I'm hoping for the best.

 

[koraks]

I'm sure it can be mended. I hope the shop you brought it to will do a decent job on it. Repairing cameras like these is generally time-consuming work and often involves specialist knowledge, so the shops that will do a good job (let alone affordably) are pretty scarce.

 

[smokeandnomirrors]

Thank you for the encouragement

I think it's a good shop, I've been dealing with them for years but only for digital. They have a huge selection of all kinds of film gear and they have their own service department. I hope they know what they're doing, I didn't find a specialty repair shop when I looked recently. Although, I should be able to find one in Germany that I could ship it to, worst case...

They estimated 30 days for this job, so it could be a while until I get to see if they resolved everything.

 

[BrianShaw]

The film transport and counter on the Vb is fairly basic and uses a spring-loaded friction roller for the counter. When that gets dirty/gummy things go wrong including difficulty winding the film, improper frame spacing, and one wrinkled edge (or even ripped) on the backing paper. There is also sometimes an interaction with specific backing papers, especially if they are thin and slick. Servicing the body is the cure.

And just to be sure, you loaded the film over the rollers and not under them... right?

Good to hear that you used a tripod. That was one of my quesitons when first reading your post. Suggest a cable release too. That Rolleicord release system is really suceptible to camera shake. Also, next time you might consider using a film that is not so quirky.

Once overhauled the Vb is a really fine camera that can yield excellent results.

 

[smokeandnomirrors]

The film transport and counter on the Vb is fairly basic and uses a spring-loaded friction roller for the counter. When that gets dirty/gummy things go wrong including difficulty winding the film, improper frame spacing, and one wrinkled edge (or even ripped) on the backing paper. There is also sometimes an interaction with specific backing papers, especially if they are thin and slick. Servicing the body is the cure.

These guys ought to know, and I'm kinda disappointed they don't do some testing. I spent ten minutes with q-tips and alcohol on another one I got when I was at the shop which was obviously not cleaned before sale. Seems like they just buy the cameras and put them in the display case.

Unfortunately, I don't have any buddies here who could guide me to know which ones are good and which to avoid.

And just to be sure, you loaded the film over the rollers and not under them... right?

Yes

Good to hear that you used a tripod. That was one of my quesitons when first reading your post. Suggest a cable release too.

Thanks, when I dropped off the camera for service, I picked up a couple of cable releases

That Rolleicord release system is really suceptible to camera shake.

I didn't know that

Also, next time you might consider using a film that is not so quirky.

Well, I have no idea about film these days so I bought a variety of what they had. Live and learn

Once overhauled the Vb is a really fine camera that can yield excellent results.

I was hoping so, from what I read. Did not get lucky right out of the chute on this one though.

Thanks for the help

 

[itsdoable]

It would be better to see a picture of the whole film including the rebate, the processed images have exposure compensated.

The magenta strip on the side looks more like a processing or film handling issue, it's too uniform to be an in-camera leak. looking at the rebate would help.

Focus looks reasonable, I always check with a properly inclined target shot at full aperture.

 

[BrianShaw]

You aren't really having a bad experience; just a normal experience. I bought a Rolleicord Vb from my boss in 1983. It was his fathers and was bought not long before his father died so was virtually unused. It was pristine looking. But the first roll of film was dreadful. That's how I learned about the sensifitivity of the counter and winding system. An older, German, Rollei-trained, repairman wasn't surprised about a pristine camera needing an overhaul after 25 or so years in storage. He serviced both body and shutter. That served me well for about a decade before needing a shutter overhaul again. It traveled all over the world with me and was even used from Army helicopters. The beauty is that they are lightweight and have decent optics. My travel bag was light: camera, film, lenshood, light meter, cable release, and a monopod.

 

[smokeandnomirrors]

It would be better to see a picture of the whole film including the rebate, the processed images have exposure compensated.

I'm sorry, I don't know what is meant by rebate. I didn't get the film back yet, I just downloaded the scans online from the shop.

The magenta strip on the side looks more like a processing or film handling issue, it's too uniform to be an in-camera leak. looking at the rebate would help.

Focus looks reasonable, I always check with a properly inclined target shot at full aperture.

I didn't know what to think of it. I'll make sure they give me some kind of answer and how they fixed it, thanks to both of you for mentioning it.

You aren't really having a bad experience; just a normal experience. I bought a Rolleicord Vb from my boss in 1983. It was his fathers and was bought not long before his father died so was virtually unused. It was pristine looking. But the first roll of film was dreadful. That's how I learned about the sensifitivity of the counter and winding system. An older, German, Rollei-trained, repairman wasn't surprised about a pristine camera needing an overhaul after 25 or so years in storage. He serviced both body and shutter. That served me well for about a decade before needing a shutter overhaul again. It traveled all over the world with me and was even used from Army helicopters. The beauty is that they are lightweight and have decent optics. My travel bag was light: camera, film, lenshood, light meter, cable release, and a monopod.

That's an awesome story

What's unfortunately different now is the repair business is a tiny fraction of what it was and the experts have mostly gone on to the darkroom in the sky.

But yes, the attraction for me about these, aside from the fact I like analog (music, film etc.) is exactly what you said. These little TLRs are light, most of them can't swap lenses, there's very little burden having one handy.

 

[Pieter12]

Paepke Fototechnik – seit/since 2024 Inh./Owner Leonid Kopilevich

paepke-fototechnik.de

 

[MattKing]

I'm sorry, I don't know what is meant by rebate. I didn't get the film back yet, I just downloaded the scans online from the shop.

This Resource might help:
https://www.photrio.com/forum/resou...nsparencies-for-troubleshooting-purposes.461/
The rebate is the area at the edge outside the image. The spaces between the frames are useful to see as well.

 

[smokeandnomirrors]

Awesome, thank you @Pieter12 and @MattKing