New Kodak Pan X Aerial Roll Film Available

[Steve Hamley]

Folks,

I’m posting at APUG and the Large Format Photography Forum

I’ve been talking to Jim Galli, a Kodak dealer, and others about Kodak aerial Pan-X film. There are rolls of it available, and it is a desirable fine-grained film. Those of you that know it know what it is. Allegedly, the negative in Polaroid Type 55 was Pan X. The roll film base is 3.9 mil, which is thinner than typical sheet film bases. 5” and 9-1/2” rolls are available.

Here’s the link for the tech specs:

http://www.kodak.com/eknec/PageQuerier.jhtml?pq-path=2609/2615/3999&pq-locale=en_US

The prices for a 5” x 500 foot roll is $767.00, which is $3.69 per square foot, and would yield 1,500 4x5 sheets at 51 cents per sheet, or 857 5x7 sheets at 89 cents per sheet.

I couldn’t as yet find a quote on the 9-1/2” rolls, but they were quoted as being 700 foot rolls. Since film is sold by the square whatever, at $3.69 per square foot the price would be $2,044. This would yield 840 8x10 sheets at $2.43 per sheet, or 1,292 sheets of 6-1/2 x 8-1/2 at $1.58 per sheet.

Now the bad news is that the Great Yellow Father, as it always has, requires a 10-roll minimum. The dealer in question is willing to pop for that minimum if there’s enough interest/commitment. Personally, I intended to buy a roll periodically and freeze it, realizing this film’s life may be limited, although it is allegedly still being produced.

So I want to gauge interest. Just for hoots and giggles, who’d be interested in a roll of what? Do keep in mind that this would be fresh film from Kodak, not auction film of unknown provenance. The film would bought from, and be shipped by the dealer, not from me.

Cheers,

Steve

 

[keithwms]

I'll take a 5" roll, Steve. Actually, I already have a 1000 ft roll

I dunno about the wisdom of using the 9.5" roll cut to sheets. It's thin stuff, it may buckle on you. I get good results with the 5" cut to 5x7", but it already has a tendency to buckle. Optimally, it wants to be shot with a vacuum back (my K20 camera has one).

Do they still have EIR?

 

[Alexander Ghaffari]

As far as I know, Kodak has signed a contract to guarantee the continued production of 9.5" rolls of Aerochrome III 1443 at least until 2018. I think that it was with The US Department of Agriculture. So, false-color infrared will be around until then, unless the world ends in 2012...we shall see.

 

[Steve Hamley]

Keith,

I haven't heard of EIR, but if I hear i'll let you know.

Cheers,

Steve

 

[spoolman]

Hi Steveut me down for a 5" roll.I have a few cameras that take 122(3 1/2 " wide) and 116/616 (2 1/2 " wide) roll film and this would be perfect for them.One question: If this is Panatomic-X,what is the ASA/ISO ?.

Doug

 

[nickandre]

This is actual panatomic X? cool. So is there any way to get it?

 

[keithwms]

I have some of this aero stuff and indeed it is very close to good old panatomic x, maybe a bit more red sensitivity but I didn't test it thoroughly. You can rate it at about 25-32 or so. IIRC I successfully developed it in wd2d+. I have been meaning to try it in POTA for some nutty projects of mine. Anyway, good stuff, very good.

I think I recall that Jim Galli uses or used it.

 

[nickandre]

It seems to be just the right width for splitting to 120 format. How many rolls would that make? 250 so $3 a roll. Someone else want to do this for me?

 

[keithwms]

It can be done, but you'll run into perfs on one side of half of your 120 film. At least, what I have of the 5" roll is double perfed. The area inside the perfs is ~117 mm. Total film width is exactly 5", or ~127mm. Perfs run about 5mm in, on both sides.

I am planning to split mine, rolled up, by cutting the roll with a fine-toothed hand saw. I initially thought of modifying a paper shredder but concluded that the film is too fragile.

 

[Steve Hamley]

This is actual panatomic X? cool. So is there any way to get it?

Yes. You can have it right now if you want 10 rolls, Kodak has it in stock. The purpose of the post is to get enough folks together so that a single person doesn't have to buy a 10-roll minimum.

Cheers,

Steve

 

[Steve Hamley]

Hi Steveut me down for a 5" roll.I have a few cameras that take 122(3 1/2 " wide) and 116/616 (2 1/2 " wide) roll film and this would be perfect for them.One question: If this is Panatomic-X,what is the ASA/ISO ?.

Doug

The listed speed is 40:

http://www.kodak.com/eknec/documents/1e/0900688a802b091e/ti1172.pdf

But I always shot Type 55 as 25-30.

Cheers,

Steve

 

[Steve Hamley]

BTW, I have not mentioned the dealer as I'm not sure that would be in accordance with forum posting rules, but if anyone wants to know or contact them, just e-mail or PM me. BTW, only authorized Kodak dealers can order from Kodak, so the deal has to go this way. If I were Kodak in this economy, if someone walked up with $2K+ and wanted a roll or two of aerial film, they'd darn sure walk away with it. But then who am I? I'd have it where you could order on the web, and if you wanted pre-cut into sheets, I'd do that too for the right price.

Cheers,

Steve

 

[keithwms]

Steve, tell me who your dealer is by PM and if it's the same as mine, then I can vouch for him.

 

[jimgalli]

I use it all the time. I rate it at ASA 32. It has the grain structure of Tech Pan without all the fussiness. It curls into the emulsion so it natually holds itself to the back of a holder. I use it in 8X10 all the time from 9.5 inch roll. No perfs. It came both ways so make d*** sure you get the stuff with no perfs. 4 3/4 minutes in PcatHD 1:1:100. Awesome film. In the enlarger you can look all day with a grain focuser and you're out of luck unless you can find a contrast line.

 

[Anscojohn]

I have some of this aero stuff and indeed it is very close to good old panatomic x, maybe a bit more red sensitivity
******
In other words, EFKE 25 orthopancromatic, nicht wahr?

 

[keithwms]

Ähnlich aber... not quite

 

[jimgalli]

Folks,

I’ve been talking to Jim Galli, a Kodak dealer, ........

Cheers,

Steve

Let me set the record straight, I am not the Kodak dealer in that sentence.

Another point; I've never had any luck using this in 4X5. The 5 is correct and it's easy enough to cut, not so easy to load, but do-able, but the problem is in the developing. It's too small to hold itself in any of my jobo tanks, both 2500 and 3000 series. Nor will it go in the old Kodak stainless holders. It's a pita. 5X7 works perfect in the JOBO.

 

[AgX]

Steve,

In guess you got something wrong about that minimum order of 10 rolls.

There is no minimum order quantity for a 9.5" roll of that film.

If you read their catalogue you will see that they have minimum orders for `non-factory-stocked-items´.
For a 5" film that would be multiples of 10 rolls starting from a minimum amount.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

I'm not that interested in the film, as I'm happy with other emulsions available to me. But how can the 5" roll work for 5x7 and not 4x5? I guess I'm not familiar with Jobo as I've got Uniroller for my rotary stuff. But in both the Beseler, Chromega, and Uniroller drums, there are rails inside the tank. You can slide any 5" film into the tank, along the rails, and either two 5x7" sheets, or four 4x5" (with a divider) sheets fit in it.

Are the Jobo drums different?

I'd like to add that if you have a lot of cash lying around, and have the time and patience to cut this stuff up, it's an interesting proposition. The Pan-X stuff is supposed to keep forever if stored right.

- Thomas

Let me set the record straight, I am not the Kodak dealer in that sentence.

Another point; I've never had any luck using this in 4X5. The 5 is correct and it's easy enough to cut, not so easy to load, but do-able, but the problem is in the developing. It's too small to hold itself in any of my jobo tanks, both 2500 and 3000 series. Nor will it go in the old Kodak stainless holders. It's a pita. 5X7 works perfect in the JOBO.

 

[Steve Hamley]

I'd like to add that if you have a lot of cash lying around, and have the time and patience to cut this stuff up, it's an interesting proposition. The Pan-X stuff is supposed to keep forever if stored right. - Thomas

I'll let Jim answer the first part; but it's only expensive because a roll is a LOT of film. Per shot, it's roughly 1/3 the cost of a packaged Kodak product like Tri-X. Keeping nearly forever is part of the idea, not to mention having a consistent product for a long time. But you are correct, if you're happy with what you have (and I am too to a large extent), there's no reason to buy in. But if you liked Type 55 negs, here you go, and you can have 8x10, 8x20, 7x17,... You'll have to add your own funky borders though!

Cheers, Steve

 

[David Grenet]

They have EIR and someone is selling it in 120, cut from a roll and hand rolled -

http://www.tarquinius.de/

Who knows, maybe he'll cut you some sheets if you ask nicely...

 

[alanrockwood]

I don't suppose there is a way to cut it and perforate it for 35mm...?

 

[keithwms]

Incidentally, I am currently making some sheet holder inserts so that I can shoot the film as 5x10".

Rather than perfing it for 35mm, you might just cut it down and attach a 35mm segment to one end, that might work for most purposes.

I have also been thinking about making my own pan-x quickloads.

 

[jimgalli]

But how can the 5" roll work for 5x7 and not 4x5? I guess I'm not familiar with Jobo as I've got Uniroller for my rotary stuff. But in both the Beseler, Chromega, and Uniroller drums, there are rails inside the tank. You can slide any 5" film into the tank, along the rails, and either two 5x7" sheets, or four 4x5" (with a divider) sheets fit in it.

Are the Jobo drums different?
- Thomas

The problem for this technician is that the stuff is too thin and floppy to hold itself in any of the usual slots or grooves made for 4X5. Perhaps 5 sheets would work ok in a JOBO 3010, I may try that this weekend. But 2 sheets per hole as is normal would float around on top of each other. 5 at a time wouldn't be too bad. I'll give that a try.

 

[Steve Hamley]

All,

If Kodak still makes the film (and they reportedly still do, they could just as easily (probably) run a master roll for the annual LF/ULF film order. Anyone interested in this?

Cheers,

Steve