New Kodak Film in 2022?

[Sirius Glass]

Weren't they working on porting TMAX P3200 to 120? Does anyone know if that was cancelled? I love Delta 3200 in 120, I'd love to compare it to P3200, but I'm shooting very little 35mm these days.

Ditto I would like to see TMAX P3200 in 120 too.

 

[AnselMortensen]

HIE in 5x7, please....

or, pretty much any size.....

 

[Henning Serger]

Hello Matt,

It may be the case that, just as it was many decades ago, the people with red window cameras are now relatively important.

No, it is a niche. The big majority of 120 film users is using cameras with an exposure counter. That is about 85-90% of the demand.
Red window cameras played a more important role 15 - 10 years ago, when the "Holga-Trend" was running. That was a strong trend, but only for some years. After its peak it decreased quite fast.
The trend of the last 5-6 years in medium format - driven by many young photographers - has been higher quality medium format cameras. That is the reason why during the last years the demand and the prices for Hasselblad, Mamiya, Pentax, Fuji, Rollei, Contax medium format cameras have increased so much.

The growth in 120 is most likely from enthusiasts, rather than professional and commercial users.

Yes, it is most likely from enthusiasts, but the demand from professionals has also increased.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Henning Serger]

Weren't they working on porting TMAX P3200 to 120? Does anyone know if that was cancelled?

It was just one of the numerous speculations which new product it could be. But at least it was one of the more realistic speculations.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[dutchsteammachine]

Single 35mm rolls of expired Aerochrome/EIR sell for 120-150 easily on eBay now.

I guess still not enough to warrant a production run? Given a single run would probably last for 5 years.

Imagine if Kodak made a super 8 run of Aerochrome, that would be amazing.

 

[Photomultiplier]

Bob Shanebrook explains how the scanning of the film works at the coating line. It uses an NIR laser beam with 830nm for all sensitized materials. (Making Kodak Film, 2nd Edition, Page 248)
With this scanning equipment, coating imperfections are detected so that affected sections of the master roll can be discarded when being slit and finished. If one looks at the datasheets of EIR or HIE,
it is clear that the wavelength of this laser falls into the spectral sensitivity of those emulsions.
Additionally, the coating and finishing machines will almost certainly use a lot of other off-the-shelf industrial sensors that utilize IR.

As they are coating everything on this one coating machine in B38, this is probably the very practical reason why a new IR film just cannot be produced.

Some photographers even had problems with IR film when used in more modern cameras that also used IR to detect the sprocked holes or the presence of film or whatever. The invisible light exposed the film.

Ilford SFX on the other hand is a film with an extended red sensitivity. The sensitivity curve drops off sharply at about 750nm, just short of where "real" IR would start. At the typical wavelengths used in industrial sensors and Kodak's laser scanner, it
has already dropped to zero. I am sure that Ilford also uses IR sensors and that explains why SFX can be manufactured on those machines.


Conclusion: No real IR film to expect, because the equipment would destroy the film just moments after it had been made.

Edit: typo

 

[Pieter12]

I don't expect any new film from Kodak in 2022. After all, there was another thread where a "major consumer" or some such was threatening to put Kodak out of business for raising film prices.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Bob Shanebrook explains how the scanning of the film works at the coating line. It uses an NIR laser beam with 830nm for all sensitized materials. (Making Kodak Film, 2nd Edition, Page 248)
With this scanning equipment, coating imperfections are detected so that affected sections of the master roll can be discarded when being slit and finished. If one looks at the datasheets of EIR or HIE,
it is clear that the wavelength of this laser falls into the spectral sensitivity of those emulsions.
Additionally, the coating and finishing machines will almost certainly use a lot of other off-the-shelf industrial sensors that utilize IR.

As they are coating everything on this one coating machine in B38, this is probably the very practical reason why a new IR film just cannot be produced.

Some photographers even had problems with IR film when used in more modern cameras that also used IR to detect the sprocked holes or the presence of film of whatever. The invisible light exposed the film.

Ilford SFX on the other hand is a film with an extended red sensitivity. The sensitivity curve drops off sharply at about 750nm, just short of where "real" IR would start. At the typical wavelengths used in industrial sensors and Kodak's laser scanner, it
has already dropped to zero. I am sure that Ilford also uses IR sensors and that explains why SFX can be manufactured on those machines.


Conclusion: No real IR film to expect, because the equipment would destroy the film just moments after it had been made.

You are correct. IR film requires chemicals that are not easy to get reliable supplies of the purity required. That is why the US Department of Defense subsided Kodak for decades to preserve a national asset.

 

[cmacd123]

Some photographers even had problems with IR film when used in more modern cameras that also used IR to detect the sprocked holes or the presence of film of whatever. The invisible light exposed the film.

some of the older Canon EOS camera manuals mentioned this and even had Pictures. in most of the EOS film cameras the film passes an IR led and sensor pair located at the upper right of the film opening when looking at the back of the open camera. the camera's computer counts the perforations as they go by and stops at the next frame. one of the EOS 1 units instead used an actual sprocket to meter out the film, so that IR film could be used.

 

[cmacd123]

expired Aerochrome/EIR
I guess still not enough to warrant a production run? Given a single run would probably last for 5 years.
.

given that the expiry date of IR was always shorter than average, your 5 year supply would be out of date in half that time.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I have had IR film [HIE, Rollei IR400, Konica IR 750] last longer when kept in a freezer.

 

[abruzzi]

It was just one of the numerous speculations which new product it could be. But at least it was one of the more realistic speculations.

Best regards,
Henning

thanks for the comment. My memory may be faulty, but I thought Kodak actually talked about working on P3200 in 120, around the time they released E100.

 

[Henning Serger]

thanks for the comment. My memory may be faulty, but I thought Kodak actually talked about working on P3200 in 120, around the time they released E100.

Now as you say it.......yes, I think there has been a bit diffuse insinuation in the sense of "we get requests from customers, and may have a look into it evaluating whether it may be possible...." If I remember right. Told in an interview. But I am not 100% sure.
As the emulsion itself is already there, the investment for P3200 in 120 would at least be manageable. On the other side: It would be a "niche in a very small niche" product. And there are definitely many other projects which should have much, much higher priorities for Kodak. Especially in these very difficult Pandemic times.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Arcadia4]

Well you are both correct..

thanks for the comment. My memory may be faulty, but I thought Kodak actually talked about working on P3200 in 120, around the time they released E100

Q. Will you expand to support medium format?
A. Possibly, depending on the level of demand.
https://imaging.kodakalaris.com/sites/default/files/files/products/P3200_FAQs.pdf

Now as you say it.......yes, I think there has been a bit diffuse insinuation in the sense of "we get requests from customers, and may have a look into it evaluating whether it may be possible...." If I remember right. Told in an interview. But I am not 100% sure.

‘Church also shares that Kodak Alaris is also planning to release a 120 format line of TMax P3200 black-and-white negative film.’
https://petapixel.com/2019/01/29/kodak-ektachrome-coming-in-120-and-sheet-formats-this-year/

 

[Hadrorex]

Given that sales of C41 seem to be the big driver of film growth at the moment, I think they should port some of the consumer grade C41 films to 120 (I'd love sheets as well, but that is pretty unlikely.) I don't really care which ones, as long as it doesn't have the Portra color profile (which I'm not a huge fan of.) This is mostly me missing Fuji color film in 120. I still have a couple of dozen rolls of Pro 400H, but I'd like something slower and not Portra.

Oh, and HIE! In 4x5 and 120!

I's sure like them to again produce the CN 400 in 35 and a 120/220 format.

 

[Sirius Glass]

As we just recently have determined, Kodak already launched a new film in 2022.
It is called Fujicolor 200.

 

[M-88]

Majority of those people, who buy film nowadays are going for consumer-grade film. It would make more sense to increase production/sale volume of consumer grade products instead of bringing some niche product back from the dead. This is especially true for current prices, when shooting colour film is becoming less feasible for more and more people around the world. Nostalgia and dreams are nice, but I don't think those things are what drives Kodak.

 

[md_photo]

Ektachrome (or whatever name) 400 - 35mm, 120 and sheet. That would be ideal.

 

[DonW]

Not counting colour film stock Kodak doesn't produce anything of interest to me that Ilford doesn't do, and do better imho.

So what I guess I'm saying is I really don't care what Kodak does.

 

[Don_ih]

Now I'm waiting for the acolytes to descend and stone the blasphemer.

 

[nicolasllasera]

Nico Llasera keeps hinting that he has insider knowledge of news from Kodak that he can't share yet. So, I'm hopeful there might actually be a new/resurrected film stock later this year.

This is the year! Or so I hope, with the film market you never know.

 

[braxus]

Since they now released Gold 200 in 120, Im more hopeful there are more releases coming. There was mention they may be working on a couple others down the pike. I don't remember where I read that. Im betting Plus X gets re-released again. That seems to be the most logical choice at this point. And its the easiest one to reintroduce, since it was only discontinued 10 years ago now.

Im also hopeful Panatomic X might get a chance again, but so far, no indication they will do that film. It would complete the triad of slow, medium, and fast B&W cubic grain films.

 

[MultiFormat Shooter]

Im also hopeful Panatomic X might get a chance again, but so far, no indication they will do that film.

Since Panatomic-X had cadmium in the emulsion, it is very unlikely that Kodak would re-release the original formulation.

 

[JNP]

Dump everything and just make ortho film and azo like the good old days

 

[Cholentpot]

Since Panatomic-X had cadmium in the emulsion, it is very unlikely that Kodak would re-release the original formulation.

Not picking on you specifically ok?

Here's the problem with the film community in a shell nut.

'OH NO! My Modern Pana-X doesn't have cadmium in it! I mean it look and acts almost exactly the same but IT DOESN'T HAVE CADMIUM!'

You know what Kodak cares about? Selling more film. And if they can take Tmax 100, tweak it a little, slap a new label on it and sell it as Panatomic-X II then they'll do it. I'll bet you'll see Kodachrome 23 come out which is just Ektrachrome tweaked with a new label. And you know what? It'll sell like hotcakes. It won't be able to stay on the shelves.