Another New York Silver Stories video from Ilford
pentaxuser
pentaxuser
New Ilford Inspires Video- The Master Printers
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Other than it being NYC-centric (my birth certificate reads NYC, and I have no patience for those who view the place as some nirvana), that video does offer some useful information. In many scenes where prints aren't under carefully controlled lighting, it confirms that today's Ilford fiber-based papers include top coats which are far, far, faaaaar too reflective.
Apparently the appeal of shiny objects trumps yesteryear's elegant print surfaces. Sad.
Apparently the appeal of shiny objects trumps yesteryear's elegant print surfaces. Sad.
Sal, well at least someone watched it
. I was beginning to wonder if anyone would bother 
An interesting observation about today's Ilford FB paper and one I don't recall being mentioned very much if at all on Photriopentaxuser
Nice video.
In terms of the print surface, are most display prints shown under glass, or are they unprotected in order to show the actual print surface? How does glass affect to impact of the image?
In terms of the print surface, are most display prints shown under glass, or are they unprotected in order to show the actual print surface? How does glass affect to impact of the image?
You haven't been reading my posts. I bring it up all the time. It's not limited to Ilford. Adox went to a shiny top coat that appeals to today's primitives too.
If one uses the right glass (low-iron, AR-coated, like https://www.framedestination.com/prod/sh/anti-reflective-water-white-artglass-ar70.html), not at all. If one uses plain glass, it adds even more reflections and a green cast. If one uses so-called "museum glass," the plastic UV-absorbent coating adds a yellow or pinkish cast.
I must have missed your posts. However when I mentioned "not very much" I suppose, now I think about it, I was really referring to the breadth of complaints about the Ilford or Adox FB surfaces as opposed to those from one or two membersYou haven't been reading my posts. I bring it up all the time. It's not limited to Ilford. Adox went to a shiny top coat that appeals to today's primitives too.
I too am affected by the loneliness of being in a small minority. Remember, Sal, I am the one trying to steer others from using more Perceptol than is necessary but my words seemed to be "falling on stony ground" and alas producing no fruit
Yeah, I am like "a prophet in his own land" (Luke 4:24)
pentaxuser
The gloss surface gives the impression of more detail and depth vs matte or even semi-matte. At least these are not ferrotyped prints. It can be very difficult to light large prints, framed or not. I have been in many galleries where you have to move around to find the sweet spot with little or no reflection. The old Annenberg Center for Photography in Century City was terrible with bright glare on the outside walls. Maybe the worst I've seen is Gagosian in Beverly Hills, with large skylights and windows producing very distractingly reflections on large prints (Jeff Wall, Avedon's American West for example). Pace gallery in Los Angeles has nice, bright, even illumination that shows off work very well. It probably should, James Turrell designed the lighting.
To be honest, I tried to watch the video from start to finish, but as with many YouTube videos, I lose patience, because it takes them so long to say something. So I just took it in segments. I can't say I learned much, except the printers in the video love living in New York, like their jobs a lot, and make big prints. I must not be the intended audience. Nevertheless, I applaud Ilford for making the video.
For silver gelatin prints, including lith prints, I prefer warm tone fiber based paper with a glossy finish air dried. The closest I have found to that surface for digital prints is Canson Bayrta Photographique. For platinum/palladium prints, I prefer a matte paper, specifically Hahnemuhle Platinum Rag. I dislike all resin coated papers.
For silver gelatin prints, including lith prints, I prefer warm tone fiber based paper with a glossy finish air dried. The closest I have found to that surface for digital prints is Canson Bayrta Photographique. For platinum/palladium prints, I prefer a matte paper, specifically Hahnemuhle Platinum Rag. I dislike all resin coated papers.
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Overly shiny air-dried glossy fiber based prints, rather than giving the impression of more detail, obscure it with reflections in any lighting but the most controlled.
My comment had nothing to do with large print size. In fact, smaller prints held in the hand tend to suffer even more from excess surface gloss.
If seeking an inkjet print with appropriate -- i.e. resembling the air-dried glossy gelatin silver papers of decades ago -- surface finish, look at ones made on Hahnemuhle FineArt Baryta Satin with a Canon dye, not pigment, printer, such as the PRO-100 or PRO-200.
I use Ilford Multigrade Warmtone fiber based paper in a glossy finish. I do not believe it is "overly shiny" when air dried, and I have not experienced reflections which have obscured detail in a variety of lighting conditions. Perhaps there are other glossy papers which exhibit that problem. I can only report my experiences with papers I am familiar with.
I prefer Canson Baryta Photographique to Hahnemuhle FineArt Baryta Satin because I prefer a smooth finish to satin finish. Everyone has their preferences.
Wish they showed more about how the 50 inch paper roll prints are processed, washed, dried, flattened and mounted.
My biggest archival washer is 20x24 and, as a one-man outift, those prints on fiber paper are challenging to handle to completion.
One thing I was impressed with was Charles Richardson's attention to detail keeping dust off the 10x10 glass and negative. I really don't spend enough time and wind up having to spot too much.
My biggest archival washer is 20x24 and, as a one-man outift, those prints on fiber paper are challenging to handle to completion.
One thing I was impressed with was Charles Richardson's attention to detail keeping dust off the 10x10 glass and negative. I really don't spend enough time and wind up having to spot too much.
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I agree and you'd think that given the audience it is aimed at that what struck as important would have struck Ilford However all of that presumes that Ilford controlled the way the video was presented and this may not have been the case
Equally it may have been that the prime objective was to say that silver gelatin paper is alive and well even in mural size prints
pentaxuser
What printer / ink type are you using with that Canson? Results from Hahnemuhle FineArt Baryta Satin are radically different on my PRO-100 than on my Epson P600. I'd never hold up FineArt Baryta Satin / P600 prints as a surface gloss goal for darkroom papers. Differential from pigments leaves any areas with ink far too shiny (and much shinier than the paper itself) compared to uniform, pleasing result with dyes.
I use an Epson 3880 with ConeColor Pro inks. I printed the same image on thirty different papers and selected Canson Baryta Photographique as the one I preferred. In my opinion, Canson Baryta Photographique is the one that most closely resembled air dried glossy fiber base enlarging papers. Of course, others may have reached a different conclusion.
I did not consider the Canon PRO-100. Canon printers are not support by the software I use in making alternate process prints. I am sure that the Canon PRO-100 makes fine prints.
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Is that Canson Baryta Photographique or the current Canson Baryta Photographique II? The current ("II") product is described as having a satin finish like Hahnemuhle FineArt Baryta Satin. They're both alpha cellulose too. The primary difference I can find is that Canson incorporates a "very low" level of OBA while Hahnemuhle has none, resulting in whiteness ratings of 96 and 92 respectively.
I might try a package of Baryta Photographique II just to see how it looks with both dye and pigment inks. Although FineArt Baryta Satin is a perfect match for white Rising mat board, and finding mats for whiter papers is difficult. "Polar white" and its twins from other manufacturers seem over-the-top white compared to the whitest of paper.
I am still using the Canson Baryta Photographique from my stash. I haven't used any Canson Baryta Photographique II. I will be disappointed if the finish has changed. One thing I have learned is that you can't go by a manufacturer's finish names. Two papers claiming a satin finish can be different. As for online reviews, two reviewers can have a different idea in mind when they say a paper has a satin finish. You need to look at the paper with your own eyes.
I use white mat board from Archival Methods. It comes in different shades from bright white to cream. I have forgotten exactly which shade I selected. I'd have to look through my old orders.
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MattKing
Moderator
Folks. Perhaps this discussion of paper surfaces deserves its own thread. I'd suggest the Presentation and Marketing sub-forum.
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