New Ihagee Elbaflex

[farmersteve]

Just when you thought the Reflex was the only new 35mm camera to come out, here is another. The Ihagee Elbaflex https://www.thephoblographer.com/2017/11/10/new-elbaflex-nikon-f-mount-slr-takes-35mm-film/

 

[macfred]

From The Ihagee home page : http://i-hagee.com/elbaflex/

 

[faberryman]

If the Elbaflex hits Kickstarter before the Reflex campaign ends, I wonder how many Reflex backers will jump ship? The all mechanical shutter sounds like a better choice than the electronic shutter and non-replaceable rechargeable battery.

 

[oreston]

Made in Ukraine, Nikon F mount, mechanical shutter with top speed of 1/500. Sounds quite a lot like a Kiev 19.
This is a strange way to revive the Ihagee name, but at least they're not calling it an Exakta.

 

[AgX]

With the planned "Reflex" camera we meanwhile learned about two features that had not been employed so far at all (exchangable body-mounts) or are at least rare on the used market (exchangable film-backs). Whether these two features should be important in times as these remains questionable, as of course the whole issue of a new SLR.

The "Elbaflex" though even seems just plain middle-of-the-road. What puts up the above question even more.

Not to start the whole basic-question again... I just wanted to hint at the differences.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

I would support this in addition to the Reflex. Actually, it is more to my liking.

I have and use my real Exaktas regularly (four of them so far in the last four months), so I have mixed feelings on them using the Ihagee name on a new product.

They should offer English speakers a key to the proper pronunciation of the IHG acronym:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ihagee

 

[AgX]

Kiev 19 ...

What we can deduce so far: A Kiev 19 in an Elbaflex coat and some technical details upgraded materialswise.

 

[oreston]

Having just read the spiel on the above linked Ihagee page, I think it literally is based on the old Kiev 19. However they're at pains to emphasise that the design has been refined and that the whole project is being overseen by experienced German technicians. Quality assurance will doubtless be on a totally different level to the old late Soviet era Kievs as well.
The only real objection to this is the vast supply of near-indestructable mechanical Nikons and Nikkormats already in the World.

 

[Billy Axeman]

If the Elbaflex hits Kickstarter before the Reflex campaign ends, I wonder how many Reflex backers will jump ship? The all mechanical shutter sounds like a better choice than the electronic shutter and non-replaceable rechargeable battery.

Someone in the Comments section on the Reflex Kickstarter page is actually saying that the battery is rechargeable and replaceable, but it is not an official answer from the Reflex team.

 

[AgX]

 

[macfred]

Someone in the Comments section on the Reflex Kickstarter page is actually saying that the battery is rechargeable and replaceable, but it is not an official answer from the Reflex team.

Does not belong to this thread, but ... The statement about the battery was posted by Laurence Von Thomas - Design and Founder of Reflex.

 

[Billy Axeman]

Does not belong to this thread, but ... The statement about the battery was posted by Laurence Von Thomas - Design and Founder of Reflex.

Thanks macfred. The comment from Laurence Von Thomas isn't highlighted in blue so I thought is wasn't from Reflex.
Looks good if this is a Kiev 19 update. Butkus has a manual but it is quite short.

 

[mshchem]

They should sell USSR space cameras. These folks did a lot of VERY high end work. They could tell you more but, you know, it's a secret!

 

[oreston]

There are Ukrainian sellers on ebay selling NOS examples of the Kiev-19m. This seems to have been the last version, manufactured well into the 1990s. Like the Elbaflex, it came in a black finish and had a hand grip.

 

[Mistral75]

Made in Ukraine, Nikon F mount, mechanical shutter with top speed of 1/500. Sounds quite a lot like a Kiev 19.
(...)

Indeed, it sounds and also looks like a Kiew 19M.



They don't even hide it:

The inside of the camera is based on Ukrainian camera technology design manufactured in the Ukrainian Arsenal factory up to the late 1980s

(...)
This is a strange way to revive the Ihagee name, but at least they're not calling it an Exakta.

They couldn't call it Exakta: the Exakta trademark belongs to to Jos. Schneider Optische Werke GmbH a.k.a. Schneider Kreuznach.

 

[Mistral75]

By the way, this is known territory.

The Ihagee trademark belongs to SEMI Verwaltung GmbH, a company based in Koblenz. Other trademarks owned by SEMI Verwaltung include Lydith, Makroplasmat, Nocturnus, Oreston, Primagon and Telemegor. Those are some of the names used by Meyer-Optik Görlitz, also based in Koblenz, for their lenses.

This Ihagee project involves therefore the same clique (net SE group, also based in Koblenz, Dr Stefan Immes as CEO and more) as Meyer-Optik Görlitz, Oprema Jena and Emil Busch.

 

[removed account4]

there's no school, like the old school ...


գնաց arax լուսանկարը!

 

[Billy Axeman]

Welcome to Photrio, Mistral75

 

[Mistral75]

Welcome to Photrio, Mistral75

Thank you!

 

[oreston]

By the way, this is known territory.

The Ihagee trademark belongs to SEMI Verwaltung GmbH, a company based in Koblenz. Other trademarks owned by SEMI Verwaltung include Lydith, Makroplasmat, Nocturnus, Oreston, Primagon and Telemegor. Those are some of the names used by Meyer-Optik Görlitz, also based in Koblenz, for their lenses.

This Ihagee project involves therefore the same clique (net SE group, also based in Koblenz, Dr Stefan Immes as CEO and more) as Meyer-Optik Görlitz, Oprema Jena and Emil Busch.

Already noted. The Phoblograher article linked above states that this camera comes from "...the same folks who do the Jena Biotar and Meyer-Optik lineup of products." The use of venerable old trade names/company names is pure marketing, but they're hardly the first to do it (Cosina Voigtlander being a noteworthy example). The "Oprema Jena" handle I find rather curious though, seeing as they are headquartered (as you say) in Koblenz and have their lenses manufactured in Japan by Tokina. I know the Biotars originally hail from Jena, but the connection is a little tenuous in 2017. I hope this new Kiev/Elbaflex will be a little more sanely priced than their lens offerings.

 

[oreston]

Indeed, it sounds and also looks like a Kiew 19M.

View attachment 189870View attachment 189871

They don't even hide it:




They couldn't call it Exakta: the Exakta trademark belongs to to Jos. Schneider Optische Werke GmbH a.k.a. Schneider Kreuznach.

And in a way I suppose this revival of the Kiev 19 might be similar to what happened when Schneider took over camera production in Dresden and the Pentacon Six TL was reborn as the upgraded Exakta 66.

 

[Billy Axeman]

Can someone explain how it is possible that the Kiev 19(M) and probably the Ihagee Elbaflex too, are using a Nikon mount. I quess that is only possible with permission, and a license, from Nikon?

Edit: I see that Ihagee is saying on the homepage that the Elbaflex has a Nikon mount indeed.

 

[AgX]

Already noted. The Phoblograher article linked above states that this camera comes from "...the same folks who do the Jena Biotar and Meyer-Optik lineup of products."

I could not find such connection, actually I could not even find official traces of that firm. In case that was true, I would not be surprised by that, though the Elbaflex is not marketed so far as something magic.

Another point overlooked so far is their stated intention to bring out more models.

 

[macfred]

Can someone explain how it is possible that the Kiev 19(M) and probably the Ihagee Elbaflex too, are using a Nikon mount. I quess that is only possible with permission, and a license, from Nikon?

Edit: I see that Ihagee is saying on the homepage that the Elbaflex has a Nikon mount indeed.

When Arsenal started in 1977 to use the Nikon Mount (the Kiev 17 was their first model with Nikon mount - they copied the Minolta 16 and Minox 35L also) they didn't ask for permission. Those cameras were not assigned for sale in Western Europe, USA or Japan.
These days those patents are expired.

 

[Billy Axeman]

Less than 24 hours to go before we know more ...
I hope they will have detailed high res photo's from all sides and a complete spec (unlike the Reflex guys).

Comparing the Kiev 19 and 19M (if that's the precursor) I hope they are offering the Ihagee Elbaflex with brass bottom plate and top cover, preferably also a chrome option. Even better would be an extra Av mode but that's unlikely because it seems they have kept the shutter as it was (1/500s).

From the photo currently on the web-site I can't see how the grip is mounted or even if it can be removed. I definitively have my reservations if it is a fixed grip.

That said, I'm struggling to convince myself I should buy this camera if I can buy a near mint Nikon FM2 or FE2 for about the same price. You can only do that if you already own one of these, when the Elbaflex is top notch quality 'Made in Germany' (internally and finish), because it is new camera, when you assume it will be a limited run, and when you have some money left to burn.