New half frame camera - call for Beta testers!

[Cholentpot]

I was very excited about this until I saw it was a vertically oriented frame. Now I'm just somewhat excited. But of course I welcome it as a good thing.

Grain is not much of an issue with half-frame if you are shooting colour slide film for projection. I invested in a couple of thousand or so half-frame mounts a couple of years ago, so I have a sunk cost that I must indulge at some point.

E6 film and processing are expensive so it is a good way to save money in that particular context. Here is what half-frame Provia slides look like. Not exactly grain central and they tend to look much better projected of course, including as regards sharpness and detail. Camera = Yashica Samurai (good lens, but auto-exposure only ).

I like vertical oriented frame.

 

[Concord_850]

I like vertical oriented frame.

So do I, but only occasionally.

On that subject, I would add that an advantage of half-frame slide projection over full-frame is that there is a less drastic difference between vertical and horizontal aspect ratios, because it is 4:3 / 3:4 as opposed to 3:2 / 2:3. This has the practical advantage of allowing a larger projection area or screen to be used, and it is easier to allow headroom for the portrait shots when they arise.

 

[Huss]

So do I, but only occasionally.

Yeah, but for the creator that was the whole point of this camera.

Either way, rotating it 90 degrees will give you what you want. Or - an Agat 18K gives that orientation for cheap.

 

[Concord_850]

Yeah, but for the creator that was the whole point of this camera.

Either way, rotating it 90 degrees will give you what you want. Or - an Agat 18K gives that orientation for cheap.

The Agat is indeed a great camera. I'd find it a bit awkward rotating a camera for most shots to be honest.

 

[Film-Niko]

Please forgive me if I have overlooked it, but I've searched all relevant subforums and could not find a post about it.

There is a new 35mm halfframe camera coming from the UK:


Kickstarter funding has been successful.
Optics for this camera have been designed by our photrio member Jason Lane.
For me this looks like an interesting concept, and much better than some of the former attempts for new film cameras.

 

[gone]

I like it, might be impossible to shoot for people that have large hands though. That price ain't half of anything, whew, too steep for me.

 

[MattKing]

Threads combined

 

[Huss]

That price ain't half of anything, whew, too steep for me.

The new Kodak Ektar H35 at $50 is looking preeeetty good right now.

 

[summicron1]

i've shot a lot of both half frame and 35mm pinhole -- a half frame pinhole is getting pretty far down there and the images would really struggle, is my thinking. I also suspect the price of one -- around $300 for the basic model -- will be hard to overcome -- half-frame is fun especially if ur making diptics, and is great if you just want to snap away a lot to make a record of a trip, say, and just get a lot of quick prints or scans, but i almost always find myself going back to full frame -- the cost savings are not that much. Olympus Pen half frame.

 

[reddesert]

I'm not really in the market for this camera, but after looking at the page and specs I have a few thoughts:

- I'm impressed that an individual designer can bring a camera to market with an electronic shutter with a wide range of shutter speeds at any non-stratospheric price (I don't know if the shutter is designed fresh or bought-in from a manufacturer or what, but still impressed).

- It's really small, smaller than an Olympus XA for an example. They should take a picture with some everyday object as a reference (like a pack of cards - in the old days they would use a pack of cigarettes, but nobody uses that anymore).

- If you consider inflation, to say 1991 is about 2x. Say in 1991 a roll of color film was $3 and a P&S with a meter and shutter was $100, so adjusted to $6 and $200 today. Today a roll of color film is maybe $10 and the base version of this camera is about $300. I don't plan to buy one, but I also don't think it's outrageously expensive. We're just spoiled by all the excess of cheap used film cameras lying around.

 

[Huss]

I don't think the camera is expensive when you start to think how much it would cost to not only bring something new to market, but as a brand new start up, that actually has unique features.
It's just I'm good with my Oly Pen FT, Lomo LC-W, Agat 18K, Kodak Ektar H35 to not need this.

 

[Joe VanCleave]

I'm curious if this camera's electronics use a micro-controller, and is intended to be sold in the US, because if so, it requires FCC testing, which can run north of $10k.

 

[summicron1]

- If you consider inflation, to say 1991 is about 2x. Say in 1991 a roll of color film was $3 and a P&S with a meter and shutter was $100, so adjusted to $6 and $200 today. Today a roll of color film is maybe $10 and the base version of this camera is about $300. I don't plan to buy one, but I also don't think it's outrageously expensive. We're just spoiled by all the excess of cheap used film cameras lying around.

you actually make an excellent point which i tend to forget. I am afraid we've been spoiled by the prices of a lot of cheap digital junque of late, not to mention the plethora of used gear. In that light, yeah, $400 or so for a new camera with new electronics and so on is probably not all that out of line.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I still have not gotten my beta test half frame camera. It looks like I will get my $10 M series Leica camera first.

 

[Huss]

you actually make an excellent point which i tend to forget. I am afraid we've been spoiled by the prices of a lot of cheap digital junque of late, not to mention the plethora of used gear. In that light, yeah, $400 or so for a new camera with new electronics and so on is probably not all that out of line.

My new Kodak H35 was $50. And all that is, is a plastic box with single element lens, fixed focus, fixed shutter speed, fixed aperture.
(works great though!)

 

[aw614]

I’ve thought about that also Oren. I have 3 manual lenses for my M4:3 that are also sold in mounts for APS size mirrorless ( one each from Pergear, TTArtisan, and 7Artisan)
But the problem that immediately presented itself was that all 3 have lens elements that are too close to the image plane to be adapted to the Pen F half frame mount which is 28.95mm. Most mirrorless camera mounts are less than 20mm, M4:3 is 19.25mm. Mounted on the Pen F the optical block would foul the mirror movement, just not enough room. I do however use all my original Pen F mount Zuiko’s adapted to my M4:3 camera.

edit; That is of course assuming you mean the Pen F mount, you actually didn’t mention that specifically on your post so my comment may be barking up the wrong tree….so to speak.

I bought an m43 and a sony e mount version of a ttartisan lens. I haven't taken it apart to check for sure, but what I noticed was the lens seems to be designed with a specific flange distance, probably 22-25mm-ish, and the mount is then screwed on, whether it be m43, fuji x, sony e.

This is where wish one of the Chinese companies selling Leica M mount lenses would do something similar and put a pen f mount on some of their lenses. Though I am guessing there probably isn't much demand for it and then they'd have to design the mount to have the lens release on it.

One can dream to have some reasonable wide angle options that aren't off an EOS mount APS-C SLR on my Pen F (been holding off on trying an EOS mount Samyang aps c wide angle due to size)

 

[redbandit]

I post a pic taken with a half frame camera that shows no grain. Blown up it will, as will any film image because film has grain.

You complain about grain. But just complain about it because as always you never show any examples.

"But but someone may steal that pic I took of my cat!"

methinks the issue is that half frame wasnt/isnt meant to be enlarged pass 5x7... and those who enlarge to 8x10 and 11x14 find the GRAIN

 

[MattKing]

Half frame film shot and developed and printed with reasonable care can be enlarged well past 5x7.
Otherwise, one wouldn't be able to make good quality 13"x19" prints from full frame 35mm negatives.

 

[Huss]

Pen FT triptych





100% crop from above

 

[JParker]

Half frame film shot and developed and printed with reasonable care can be enlarged well past 5x7.
Otherwise, one wouldn't be able to make good quality 13"x19" prints from full frame 35mm negatives.

+1.
And let's not forget that the single picture of standard 35mm movie film is also only half-frame.
And that is projected on huge screens with 10 meters width........

 

[Concord_850]

+1.
And let's not forget that the single picture of standard 35mm movie film is also only half-frame.
And that is projected on huge screens with 10 meters width........

Indeed the 35mm movie frame is smaller than half-frame because of the soundtrack, and it still looks very good. And I can say from personal experience that the resolution of half-frame slides is suitable for projection to the same sizes that a typical full-frame slide show would use. The grain is hardly excessive, but of course that's a matter of opinion.

 

[Richard Man]

I'm curious if this camera's electronics use a micro-controller, and is intended to be sold in the US, because if so, it requires FCC testing, which can run north of $10k.

FCC is only required if it contains Wi-Fi or Bluetooth electronics

 

[Nodda Duma]

I designed the premium lens for Dave’s Alfie. It’s a nice little fixed f/8 design with performance balanced so that the film grain itself will be the limiter for resolution while at the same time the optics adds a touch of character to the image. Hard to describe, but the fixed aperture lets me balance performance and signature precisely how I want out of the simple aplanat form. All he’ll have to do is set focus properly and I think folks will be happy with this one.

He ordered prototypes when the campaign ended and now has them for image testing. Results on a digital camera look as expected, and I think he’ll be publishing results shot on film soon.

From my perspective, this is the second lens that allows the photography community a view of the modern American optical design style: performance and quality in simple, practical designs. The other is the Chroma lens, which starts shipping out to pre-order customers today.

As for the camera kickstarter…to put it bluntly: If I had smelled BS when Dave talked to me about designing a lens for the Alfie, I would have refused. But I didn’t: he strikes me as a competent engineer. His type of competency is what we want to see help push the modern film camera design community forward.



-Jason

 

[Nitroplait]

One can't really compare image size between still photography and cinematography.
A projected movie image is a 24 fps composite and will look much more detailed than a still frame of the same size projected.

 

[Concord_850]

One can't really compare image size between still photography and cinematography.
A projected movie image is a 24 fps composite and will look much more detailed than a still frame of the same size projected.

That is a fair point, but I stand over my claim about half-frame slides.