NEW Foma Retropan 320 Soft first pictures

flavio81 · Jun 25, 2015

It's really strange that they are not doing it in 120, despite doing 4x5" and 35mm. Perhaps they have less 120-spooling machines available?

Xmas said:
Think the fraction is 1/3...

Hi Xmas, i thought the ISO scale in 1/3 stop increments was:
200 250 320 400 500 640 800 ...

That's why i indicated that there was 2/3 stop between ISO 320 and 500.

Ricardo Miranda · Jun 25, 2015

Well that was a mistake of mine. I'm lousy at maths.
I shot F400 @320, so that is 1/3 overexposure.

Xmas · Jun 25, 2015

flavio81 said:
It's really strange that they are not doing it in 120, despite doing 4x5" and 35mm. Perhaps they have less 120-spooling machines available?

Hi Xmas, i thought the ISO scale in 1/3 stop increments was:
200 250 320 400 500 640 800 ...

That's why i indicated that there was 2/3 stop between ISO 320 and 500.

But it was Ricardos post? Note '?'

Ricardo Miranda · Jun 25, 2015

Yes, it was my mistake and you rightly corrected it.
Thanks!

Xmas · Jun 25, 2015

Ricardo Miranda said:
Well that was a mistake of mine. I'm lousy at maths.
I shot F400 @320, so that is 1/3 overexposure.

1/3 of a stop might be detectable with a step wedge and my Westons are the same to better than 1/3. but otherwise not significant.
So I'd not loose sleep.

We won't really know about 320 volume until they decide to make another coat and/or have labels backing and boxes as they won't sell in normal volume otherwise.

There are only a few of us bulky people.

Normally the Brick Lomo shop in London has Foma film... As well as own brand (aka Kodak etc.) silver print frequently sells out for months.

MDR · Jun 25, 2015

Since Foma is from the east (not really) the perf would be KS regardless of the later use as cine or still film. Foma also never made 35 cine film as far as I know but I could be wrong. Furthermore still cameras don't care about the difference between KS & BH perfs since they lack a register pin. I also doubt that backing paper for 120 film would be more expensive than a film cartridge for 35mm film. It is more likely that they don't want to harm the sale of 120 film from their fomapan classic line.

Roger Cole · Jun 25, 2015

cl3mens said:
It kind of makes sense in a way, but not when considering that they are already producing 120 film. Was thinking about the need for backing paper and reels. The bulk should be the easiest to produce. But at the same time they are coating it on a diffrent base for sheets. Hmmm.

I am not overly thrilled with weak AH layers, but I might try it in 4x5 for portraiture some day.

They clearly already have a source for 120 backing paper and spools. Just place a bigger order for the next batch. The base might be an issue for some reason.

Europan · Jun 26, 2015

MDR said:
Foma also never made 35 cine film as far as I know but I could be wrong.

Foma Bohemia has made 35mm ciné film. Fomapan 100, Fomapan 400, Fomapan R 100, Kine Positive, and leaders were available in long rolls, all of them with ISO 491 perforation type P which is KS1870.

Xmas · Jun 26, 2015

Roger Cole said:
They clearly already have a source for 120 backing paper and spools. Just place a bigger order for the next batch. The base might be an issue for some reason.

Yes but they might not have known the ISO to put on the paper or the box if it is the first coating that happened to work and they are selling it off after it passed tests.

120 in 6 months... Maybe

They sell cine leader film and their bulk cores will fit in some of the small cameras, they offer other finishing on request.

Oops doubled the cine sorry I've got a 16mm reel to hand for my submins.

MDR · Jun 26, 2015

Fomapan 100R is still available but I thought only in 16mm,Super 8, DS8, Normal 8 and 9.5mm which in itself is a wonder but not in 35mm.
They also produce leader film but that's it. Never heard of Fomapan 400 being available as cine film in the 100 Iso range I found something called Foma brillant 17 and 21 I guess they were also available as cinefilm.

Europan thanks for the info

Xmas · Jun 26, 2015

MDR said:
Since Foma is from the east (not really) the perf would be KS regardless of the later use as cine or still film. Foma also never made 35 cine film as far as I know but I could be wrong. Furthermore still cameras don't care about the difference between KS & BH perfs since they lack a register pin. I also doubt that backing paper for 120 film would be more expensive than a film cartridge for 35mm film. It is more likely that they don't want to harm the sale of 120 film from their fomapan classic line.

They would need another coating run for 120 for a thin base.

The seem to only offer 35mm bulk which might indicate they had no cassette labels or boxes.

They may print their own bulk and large format stickers...

MDR · Jun 26, 2015

I thought they'd offer it at least in 35mm cassettes who does Bulk loading I mean seriously even as market research this sucks. They introduce a special developer for a film with very little market appeal which they only sell in two of the least used film formats this doesn't make a lot of sense :confused:

Ricardo Miranda · Jun 26, 2015

I do bulk loading now as it is cheaper and I use about 100ft per month.
4x5 LF format is still popular with some.

Roger Cole · Jun 26, 2015

I can bulk load 35mm but quit as it just wasn't worth it even when I shot a lot of 35mm. My time is worth something and the savings weren't that much.

But I do shoot 4x5. Lots of folks do.

MDR · Jun 26, 2015

Ricardo and Roger despite the fact that LF has had a sort of renaissance the number of people shooting LF or use Bulk film is miniscule compared to 35mm shooters who prefer their film in cassettes and to the number of 120 shooters. I shoot 4x5 and 5x7 but the vast majority doesn't.

Roger Cole · Jun 26, 2015

Shrug. Sure. The vast majority don't shoot film at all and, of those who do, the vast majority of THOSE won't be interested in a film like this.

I agree it should be offered in 120, and 35mm pre-loads though.

Xmas · Jun 26, 2015

MDR said:
I thought they'd offer it at least in 35mm cassettes who does Bulk loading I mean seriously even as market research this sucks. They introduce a special developer for a film with very little market appeal which they only sell in two of the least used film formats this doesn't make a lot of sense :confused:

Don't think you appreciate their problems.

They have just coated a new film and it has passed its QA, but while they have film and a data sheet they don't have the finishing cassette stickers or boxes or 120 backing paper etc, so they can only offer bulk and LF.

They sometimes sell fomapan 400 without DX code.

To remind you Harman say the 120 backing is more expensive than their film.

When they get the finishing they will do 135, they may need to coat 120 or not even if they have coated on a 120 base and tested they can't do anything without backing paper and boxes.

I get more QA problems with Kodak film than Foma.

Keep on buying Kodak Plus-x and Fuji ... That makes real good sense to me.

I think it is sad they don't offer a 30 m length of 60 mm to finish at home as 220.

Ricardo Miranda · Jun 26, 2015

I think it is sad they don't offer a 30 m length of 60 mm to finish at home as 220.

Noel
Wouldn't that have to be coated in an appropriate base? I.e. different from 35mm? Or would the 35mm be good for 220?

MDR · Jun 26, 2015

Xmas I use plenty of Foma Film and also ordered the 4x5 version of this film. I have also contacted them regarding the future availability of 35mm pre loads and 120 Film. I am happy that they introduced a new film and my dissappointed stems from the fact that I want them to succeed and for that they need high sales numbers. Bean counters tend to cut products if they don't make enough money.

Ricardo not necessarily 120, 220 and 35 can have the same thickness an example is Delta 3200, both 35 and 120 have the same base thickness, but this might lead to compatibility issues with some cameras (automatic film counter Flexaret and Rolleiflex Style) 120 and 220 on the other hand are usually coated on the same support.

Xmas · Jun 26, 2015

Ricardo Miranda said:
Noel
Wouldn't that have to be coated in an appropriate base? I.e. different from 35mm? Or would the 35mm be good for 220?

Hi Ricardo

35 mm is on a thick base it is or was cine film in 1913 when Oscar ...
120 and 220 are the same film merely different finishing on a very thin base.
They probably have coated on a 120/220 base tested it with generic paper and are waiting for finishing materials.

Noel

Xmas · Jun 26, 2015

MDR said:
Xmas I use plenty of Foma Film and also ordered the 4x5 version of this film. I have also contacted them regarding the future availability of 35mm pre loads and 120 Film. I am happy that they introduced a new film and my dissappointed stems from the fact that I want them to succeed and for that they need high sales numbers. Bean counters tend to cut products if they don't make enough money.

Ricardo not necessarily 120, 220 and 35 can have the same thickness an example is Delta 3200, both 35 and 120 have the same base thickness, but this might lead to compatibility issues with some cameras (automatic film counter Flexaret and Rolleiflex Style) 120 and 220 on the other hand are usually coated on the same support.

I can rip sprocket holes on normal 35mm film normal SLRs, the debris is a risk of shutter damage.
Thinner film would not work for me.
Yes you can get thinner base 35 mm on PET base as PET film is very tear resistant but has other difficult characteristics. I do sometimes use PET film never torn a sprocket hole.

I cannot understand why you don't understand that you need cassette labels and paper backing to finish film they are bought in items.

MDR · Jun 26, 2015

Xmas it is the the 35mm base that can be used for 120 film example Delta 3200 not really a film that is known for bad QC or camera killing. Some Foma films I have used in the past have stickers instead of screen prints onto the cassette sometimes those stickers cover other films from the foma lines cassettes. Several million stickers can be printed in a matter of hours. They do have paper backing otherwise they wouldn't be able to make Fomapan 100, 200 & 400 they are the same except for the small strip of adhesive which says Fomapan 100, 200 or 400. It is in my opinion a mistake on their part they should have started with the possible bestsellers and not the low sellers, this way it would look less like a test balloon that might dissappear any minute. I will use the film as I like the results I have seen so far and will hope for a glorious future for the product.

Xmas · Jun 26, 2015

MDR said:
Xmas it is the the 35mm base that can be used for 120 film example Delta 3200 not really a film that is known for bad QC or camera killing. Some Foma films I have used in the past have stickers instead of screen prints onto the cassette sometimes those stickers cover other films from the foma lines cassettes. Several million stickers can be printed in a matter of hours. They do have paper backing otherwise they wouldn't be able to make Fomapan 100, 200 & 400 they are the same except for the small strip of adhesive which says Fomapan 100, 200 or 400. It is in my opinion a mistake on their part they should have started with the possible bestsellers and not the low sellers, this way it would look less like a test balloon that might dissappear any minute. I will use the film as I like the results I have seen so far and will hope for a glorious future for the product.

Hi
Fomapan 400 is available in 0.1, 0.125 & 0.175 mm thickness eg

http://www.foma.cz/en/fomapan-400

Dependent on format 120, 35mm, & sheet & in different plastics.

You are assuming they are incompetent, I think they need the sticker, the envelope and the box , I'll give you I did not know they had gone generic paper. I'm still using their 120 from yesterday.

I use a lot of Foma too.

MDR · Jun 26, 2015

No I don't believe them incompetent I believe the market dept. was faster than the production which put them in a bind thus the early release of an incomplete line. The different thickness of the base between 35 120 is a choice not a necessity a good choice btw but not always necessary. Market dept as necessary as they are can sometimes cause problems.

Ricardo Miranda · Jun 26, 2015

Thanks to both!

One more in the Retro Special developer:

Weekend thinker by Ricardo Miranda, on Flickr

NEW Foma Retropan 320 Soft first pictures

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