New film processor: Filmomat Light

[tykos]

It indeed can be. It generally can be used in the same way as the JOBO rotary processers CPE and CPP.
You just have to safeguard / assure that the water level of the water bath is just a tiny bit lower than the motor case / housing.
In that case the lower part of the developing tank will be in the water bath, just like the other rotary processors.

Best regards,
Henning

yes, but as i was noting before, whenever the tank is moved by hand (to change chemicals, for example) you create a wave that can be significative in tight containers. Not a problem in a traditional jobo or a machine studied for that, could be a problem with this (costly) thing.
If one is veeeeery delicate, uses large containers, is willing to risk 450€, then no problems at all.

 

[Mr Negative]

If only we had the same resurgence of competition in the film scanner market...

Agreed! But given the cost of the film processors, a scanner might cost as much as a new Porsche.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Agreed! But given the cost of the film processors, a scanner might cost as much as a new Porsche.

Again oh so negative. But the advantage of consistently and properly developed film is priceless, so the cost over time diminishes. The film processors' prices do not approach that of a new Porsche, but the top of the line scanner might.

 

[Henning Serger]

yes, but as i was noting before, whenever the tank is moved by hand (to change chemicals, for example) you create a wave that can be significative in tight containers. Not a problem in a traditional jobo or a machine studied for that, could be a problem with this (costly) thing.
If one is veeeeery delicate, uses large containers, is willing to risk 450€, then no problems at all.

I think you are too worried / afraid in that regard, and you can instead be more relaxed.
Because you don't create significant "waves" when the tank is moved carefully. And you can also use a bigger tray (e.g. one for watering prints) for the water bath which leads to smaller "waves" compared to a very compact water basin.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Mr Negative]

Again oh so negative. But the advantage of consistently and properly developed film is priceless, so the cost over time diminishes. The film processors' prices do not approach that of a new Porsche, but the top of the line scanner might.

Haha not negative just being realistic. And you’re right about the benefits. I have a Jobo ATL3 that I got for a couple hundred dollars that I’m trying to keep running for the rest of my life so I know the benefits for sure. Just given the relatively low tech of the systems, the price is shocking. But I understand development costs are high, as are material costs. And the market for these processors obviously isn’t what it was in the past, so fewer buyers to absorb those sunk costs. Not knocking the companies, I support any company that is innovating and keeping film alive.

 

[miha]

The only drawback and the reason it's not fit for my needs is that it cannot rotate their Exper drum.

 

[Henning Serger]

Just given the relatively low tech of the systems, the price is shocking.

Fact ist that the technology of the systems may look like lower tech at first sight, but is definitely not low tech. I remember very well when some years ago a Chinese company tried to produce an ATL 1000 copy. They probably used a laser scanner for scanning an original JOBO ATL 1000, they thought with that data they have all needed, produced the first units and.......failed.
Because there is so much more detail knowledge and experience needed to produce reliable machines. As explained in an other post by me, I visited the JOBO factory in the function of an independent author for a film photography magazine. I've seen the production and talked to the engineering and production staff.
The "devil is in the detail", and when you want a reliable machine working for 30+ years, you have to pay a certain amount of money.
Also if you consider that the JOBO products are produced in Germany with highest environmental standards and protection + social standards for the workers (none of that is given in China).

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Mr Negative]

Fact ist that the technology of the systems may look like lower tech at first sight, but is definitely not low tech. I remember very well when some years ago a Chinese company tried to produce an ATL 1000 copy. They probably used a laser scanner for scanning an original JOBO ATL 1000, they thought with that data they have all needed, produced the first units and.......failed.
Because there is so much more detail knowledge and experience needed to produce reliable machines. As explained in an other post by me, I visited the JOBO factory in the function of an independent author for a film photography magazine. I've seen the production and talked to the engineering and production staff.
The "devil is in the detail", and when you want a reliable machine working for 30+ years, you have to pay a certain amount of money.
Also if you consider that the JOBO products are produced in Germany with highest environmental standards and protection + social standards for the workers (none of that is given in China).

Best regards,
Henning

With all due respect… it’s a variable speed rotator. It doesn’t even temp control or auto fill/dump. It’s low tech. I’m not saying it doesn’t offer value for the money or that people shouldn’t buy it…I’m saying it surprises me it’s $900.

 

[Henning Serger]

With all due respect… it’s a variable speed rotator. It doesn’t even temp control or auto fill/dump. It’s low tech.

Well, as you've talked about the ATL3 and "systems", and then made this "low tech" comment, most readers will probably get the impression you have been referring to the JOBO processors of the ATL, CPP and CPE type.
So I was referring to them in my reply.

Concerning the new JOBO SilverBase: I am convinced it will serve you very well for 20-30 years if you handle it reasonably. To produce a product with such a life span need a sophisticated production technology.

I can get an iPhone cheaper. I’m not saying it’s a bad product… but it’s 2023, I’m confident the Chinese could make this. I’m not saying it doesn’t offer value for the money or that people shouldn’t buy it…I’m saying it surprises me it’s $900 for a Rubbermaid tub and a motor.

Wrong, as the price in the US is not 900, but only 469$.
The Chinese can probably make something similar cheaper. Because they don't have the strong environmental and social protection standards Germany has, beside other reasons. By the way, I've been in China, have seen the pollution and workforce standards, and I have friends there.
Maybe you don't care about significantly less pollution, or social standards and worker protection. I do, for me that is also important criteria in my purchasing decisions.
JOBO is a family business in the third generation, and most of the employees are working there for decades. It is like a big family.
I generally prefer buying from such companies.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Mr Negative]

Well, as you've talked about the ATL3 and "systems", and then made this "low tech" comment, most readers will probably get the impression you have been referring to the JOBO processors of the ATL, CPP and CPE type.
So I was referring to them in my reply.

Concerning the new JOBO SilverBase: I am convinced it will serve you very well for 20-30 years if you handle it reasonably. To produce a product with such a life span need a sophisticated production technology.




Wrong, as the price in the US is not 900, but only 469$.
The Chinese can probably make something similar cheaper. Because they don't have the strong environmental and social protection standards Germany has, beside other reasons. By the way, I've been in China, have seen the pollution and workforce standards, and I have friends there.
Maybe you don't care about significantly less pollution, or social standards and worker protection. I do, for me that is also important criteria in my purchasing decisions.
JOBO is a family business in the third generation, and most of the employees are working there for decades. It is like a big family.
I generally prefer buying from such companies.

Best regards,
Henning

Henning,
I think there’s been a misunderstanding. My posts have been referencing the filmomat processor by the OP. It is billed as an “affordable” option. It is indeed $900 US. I think I may have confused you when I mentioned my Jobo ATL for comparison, but I was never talking about the comparable Jobo unit. I love my Jobo and would happily pay many times more than what I paid. All I’m saying, in my opinion, $900 for a manual rotator without any heat source, is expensive. The fact jobo offers a similar unit at $469 (per your post) only reaffirms my comments. The jobo unit is basically the same as the filmomat, minus the untempered heat bath. Yet it’s $400 more

 

[Henning Serger]

Henning,
I think there’s been a misunderstanding. My posts have been referencing the filmomat processor by the OP.

O.k., yes, thanks, then we had just a misunderstanding.

Some background information about Filmomat for all the photrio members outside Germany:
Here in Germany we have several regular photo fairs and film photo community events. And almost all German manufacturers of film photography related materials and equipment (we have quite a lot of them) are present at these fairs and events.
So there are always very good possibilities to talk directly to these companies. Including Filmomat. I have talked to the founder a lot over the last years at these events.
Filmomat is a one-person business, as the founder Lukas Fritz is the designer/engineer, producer / worker and book keeper, all in one person.
He is very skilled and innovative, as a 15-year old he already built an automatic processor for movie film. With Filmomat he started during his chemistry studies some years ago. Meanwhile he has finished his studies with a Ph.D. and made the decision to fully concentrate on his Filmomat company, instead of making a career in the chemistry industry.
Here is an interview with him and a BTS of his workshop:

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Mr Negative]

O.k., yes, thanks, then we had just a misunderstanding.

Some background information about Filmomat for all the photrio members outside Germany:
Here in Germany we have several regular photo fairs and film photo community events. And almost all German manufacturers of film photography related materials and equipment (we have quite a lot of them) are present at these fairs and events.
So there are always very good possibilities to talk directly to these companies. Including Filmomat. I have talked to the founder a lot over the last years at these events.
Filmomat is a one-person business, as the founder Lukas Fritz is the designer/engineer, producer / worker and book keeper, all in one person.
He is very skilled and innovative, as a 15-year old he already built an automatic processor for movie film. With Filmomat he started during his chemistry studies some years ago. Meanwhile he has finished his studies with a Ph.D. and made the decision to fully concentrate on his Filmomat company, instead of making a career in the chemistry industry.
Here is an interview with him and a BTS of his workshop:

Best regards,
Henning

Henning,
Thank you for the background. Lukas sounds like a brilliant individual and I am glad he has decided to focus his talents on his company. It benefits us all. I have edited my prior posts to be less critical, as they were unfair to Lukas and his product.
Thanks again for the information.

 

[Henning Serger]

Henning,
Thank you for the background.

You're welcome.

Lukas sounds like a brilliant individual and I am glad he has decided to focus his talents on his company. It benefits us all.

Yes, absolutely. He is really a very nice, friendly and humble person with a very strong passion for classic film photography. Sacrificing a career in chemistry industry (generally one of the very well paid industry sectors in Germany; but photo chemistry excluded) for starting such a niche business: That tells you really a lot about his passion for film photography.

And all these positive characteristics are also true for the chief of JOBO - Johannes Bockemühl - and his team. After the extremely difficult time of 2002 to 2014 he made the brave move to concentrate JOBO's business again to almost 100% on classic film photography.
Last week they celebrated their 100 year anniversery (the company was founded by his grandfather), and invited other film photography companies, distributors, partners, friends, press, authors, prof. photographers, famous passionate photographers....etc. from all over the world (Taiwan, USA, Sweden, Swiss, Italy, Germany.....).
Was a really wonderful meeting of the film photography family, with also lots of extremely interesting talks.
There will be some positive and surprising news in the coming months for us film photographers........

Best regards,
Henning

 

[bags27]

I use Patterson tanks. When I'm developing C-41, I have to burp the tank every couple of minutes, especially with the BLIX, of course.

With one of these machines, would burping still be necessary? How would that work?

(I'm anticipating comments like, you won't have to burp if you're drinking a Pilsner instead of an IPA, etc. But seriously....)

 

[miha]

With less Blix in the tank there is more space left in the tank for the gas to expand - and still stay in the tank. At least this is my experience: Jobo drums - no burp, Kinderman SS tank filled to the brim - several burps needed.

 

[bags27]

With less Blix in the tank there is more space left in the tank for the gas to expand - and still stay in the tank. At least this is my experience: Jobo drums - no burp, Kinderman SS tank filled to the brim - several burps needed.

Makes complete sense: thanks!

 

[radialMelt]

Any users of the Filmomat Light care to update us with your feelings on the product? Especially concerning your successes/failures when processing C-41, and perhaps E-6?

 

[Trond]

I've used mine once for C-41 (mostly do BW). Worked out very well. With a sous vide circulator to maintain temperature.

 

[radialMelt]

I've used mine once for C-41 (mostly do BW). Worked out very well. With a sous vide circulator to maintain temperature.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts! Did you find you had to alter your process/timings to accommodate the time it takes to take your tank off the rollers to fill with chemistry? Since something like a Jobo (with a lift anyway) allows for the pouring of chemicals while the tank is rotating, I'm wondering how the Filmomat Light would perform in comparison.

 

[Trond]

Yes, I just started pouring out about 15-20 second before the time was up. Good enough for C-41. It won't be as accurate as you can be with Jobo with a lift though.

 

[radialMelt]

Yes, I just started pouring out about 15-20 second before the time was up. Good enough for C-41. It won't be as accurate as you can be with Jobo with a lift though.

My concerns were more on the filling side of things. Even for B&w really... I wonder if the 10sec it takes to put the tank on the rollers will have an effect on the overall process

 

[Trond]

Yes, there is that. But in practice it doesn't matter. That's my experience anyway.

 

[radialMelt]

Yes, there is that. But in practice it doesn't matter. That's my experience anyway.

Thanks!