New film from Harman?

[pbromaghin]

In this thread, somebody says that the new film from Oriental is Made in UK.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Is it a new emulsion from Harman, or a rebadged Kentmere?

 

[Wayne]

delete

 

[MattKing]

Harman manufacture to contract.

If you want to introduce "Pbromaghin Pan" to your local market, contact them, discuss what specifications you want your film to have, sign a contract and send them your money and you will have it.

What they have vowed they won't due is sell any of their existing Ilford or Kentmere products under different names.

 

[pbromaghin]

Not sure about any promise regarding Kentmere. The Film Photography Project sells branded film made by Kentmere. Whether it is rebranded Kentmere, or a different emulsion I do not know. It could be the same as this stuff.

 

[MattKing]

Not sure about any promise regarding Kentmere. The Film Photography Project sells branded film made by Kentmere. Whether it is rebranded Kentmere, or a different emulsion I do not know. It could be the same as this stuff.

You've got me curious now .

I looked at the Film Photography Project's website, and as best as I can tell there isn't any film there that whose description would permit it to be re-badged Kentmere. Which film are you referring to?

Kentmere used to make film themselves, but shortly after it was acquired by Harman, all manufacture was centralized to the Harman equipment. I don't believe there is any remaining separate manufacturing under Kentmere.

 

[pbromaghin]

In the product descriptions for their FPP Edu 35mm films these lines appear:

"Our FPP EDU bw 100 film is a black and white made by Kentmere."

"Our FPP EDUbw200 film is a black and white surveillance film. The film was made for private security companies operating in the United States by FOMA.This film is exclusive to The FPP!"

"Our FPP EDU bw 400 film is a black and white made by Kentmere."

Notice that the 2 made by Kentmere are not "exclusive to the FPP"

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

Ah, the Americans!
FPP makes wild claims and mistakes brands by manufacturers.
They were sold rolls of supposedly Ukraine films from Svema.
They forgot to check that the Svema factory has been in ruins since the 90s!
And Kentmere today is a brand owned by Harman.
The Kentmere factory had to be abandoned due to health and safety concerns.

"Our FPP EDU bw 400 film is a black and white made by Kentmere."

It just means they bought on the cheap some bulk rolls of Kentmere 100 and 400 and hand-roll them. Then they gave it a new name.
It is a lot of "mumbo-jumbo" for the average American. But, it is actually just a marketing ploy.

 

[MattKing]

Intriguing....

I wonder what the significance of the "EDU" designation is?

Freestyle uses that designation for films that have "Made in Czech Republic" (FOMA) on the data sheet.

Of course, selling film "made by Kentmere" is different then selling the existing Kentmere film packaged with a different name - the first is contract manufacturing to a customer's specifications, while the second is what I would consider to be re-badging.

 

[MattKing]

It just means they bought on the cheap some bulk rolls of Kentmere 100 and 400 and hand-roll them. Then they gave it a new name.
It is a lot of "mumbo-jumbo" for the average American. But, it is actually just a marketing ploy.

They sell it in 100 foot bulk rolls too, and describe it the same way.

 

[MattKing]

I just looked more closely at the illustrating photo. It actually has Harman Technology and Kentmere's names on it.

And this shows exactly the same catalog number as the Kentmere version sold generally and available on B&H's website:

I guess, technically speaking a product that still shows the original manufacturers name along with the retailer's name isn't strictly re-badged.

 

[pbromaghin]

Mystery solved. Good find!

 

[pbromaghin]

I just noticed that they must have slapped their own sticker over the Kentmere label! "Kentmere 400" can be seen bleeding through.

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

Yes and to be precise, there's no film made by Kentmere.
It is Harman.

Why not just sell as what it actually is?
It is just the same old American arrogance.
They want to make everything as their own.

 

[MattKing]

It is just the same old American arrogance.
They want to make everything as their own.

Actually, there is a long history of retailers buying large quantities of products to be marketed as a "house" brand.

It is not a bad idea in that it tends to ensure availability.

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

Actually, there is a long history of retailers buying large quantities of products to be marketed as a "house" brand.

It is not a bad idea in that it tends to ensure availability.

Yes, that is right.
But, it normally is done with the manufacturer's knowledge or consent.
And normally it doesn't involve just putting your stickers over the packaging.

 

[MattKing]

Yes, that is right.
But, it normally is done with the manufacturer's knowledge or consent.
And normally it doesn't involve just putting your stickers over the packaging.

Many, many years ago I worked in the camera department of a Simpsons Sears/Sears Canada department store. We sold a fair amount of Sears brand film, which was actually made by 3M for sears. Every once in a while a roll badged as 3M would show up in a Sears film box.

I doubt Harman/Kentmere minds as long as their name is still visible on the outside of the package.

 

[blockend]

In the UK Poundland shops sell Agfa Vista Film, which is generally agreed to be Fujicolor according to the rebate codes. Customers for the film either don't know or don't care who made it, it's modern film, it's still produced and costs a quid! Regarding the Harman Kentmere film, unless the company were purchasing a special formula exclusive to the former Kentmere company in the takeover, the name is simply a branding exercise of its budget films under a name some people will remember. FPP describe its Svema film as being from "Eastern Europe". Unless it's very old stock, I believe only Foma are still manufacturing in the area since Efke ceased in 2012. I don't know the fate of Orwo.

Tri-X was available as Freestyle film in the US. Lomography source their films from other manufacturers. Harman maintained the "Ilford" title for its historical recognition (Ilford film hasn't been made in the London borough of Ilford for decades). In the current diminished market, it seems sensible for manufacturers to sell their products to anyone who can place a suitably profitable order.

An interesting history of the Ilford company: http://www.photomemorabilia.co.uk/Ilford/Chronology.html

 

[Arctic amateur]

ORWO still exists, though they only make BW films:
http://www.filmotec.de/?lang=en
http://www.orwona.com/

 

[blockend]

Actually, there is a long history of retailers buying large quantities of products to be marketed as a "house" brand.

It is not a bad idea in that it tends to ensure availability.

To be fair to FPP, they are a small operation working the gaps between the big guys. They buy surplus stock and give it a new spin through their podcast advertisements. Some of their enthusiasms are wide of the mark, Michael Raso's obsessive interest in instant film threatened to condemn FPP to irrelevance for a while, but the contribution of FPP has been a net good for film and film users.

Good to hear Orwo still exists, I used their stuff a lot in the early 90s and the quality stands up. Completely unobtainable in the UK, unfortunately.

 

[rhmimac]

but the contribution of FPP has been a net good for film and film users.

I second that, Michael Raso produces one of the greatest podcasts in support of analog photography. They focus on student education programs with the donation camera's they get from all over the globe. By doing so they try to get the young crowd back on the film photography train. If you still want to buy some nice film withing 10 years I believe it's key to get the next generation back into film usage, as small as it could be, all little things can help.

 

[pentaxuser]

When Kentmere was a separate company of that name and based near Kendall, Cumbria U.K. I was unaware that it produced any film. I thought it was a paper manufacturer. I thought that first film to be given the name Kentmere was produced in Mobberley, Cheshire by Harman after it had bought Kentmere and transferred production of its paper to Mobberley.

There is still a Kentmere company near Kendal but it makes boxes and the like for want of a better description.

If another company is selling Kentmere film and simply placing its own label on top then given Simon Galley's unequivocal statement about "no re-badging" I'd have been surprised if this hadn't upset Harman when it was Harman. Now it is Pemberstone I have no idea where it stands on this subject.

pentaxuser

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

I thought it was a paper manufacturer. I thought that first film to be given the name Kentmere was produced in Mobberley, Cheshire by Harman after it had bought Kentmere and transferred production of its paper to Mobberley.

And you thought it right.
Kentmere as it was in Kendal never made films.
Harman bought lock, stock and barrel and so it can use the Kentmere brand to whatever product they want.
As they wished to have a "cheaper" film in the Western markets without harming the Ilford reputation for excellence, they used the Kentmere for the first time in a film.
Kentmere films were introduced in 2009, a year after Harman purchase of the brand.

 

[AgX]

Harman bought lock, stock and barrel and so it can use the Kentmere brand to whatever product they want.

To acquire a brand name one typically does not buy lock, stock and barrel.
One only would do so if that other stuff is of interest too, or if the seller is still unaware of the brand value, and by that one can make a bargain by buying the whole shebang.

 

[trendland]

In any way it is bw film !
Be sure it is produced by Ilford !
It has ISO100 be sure it is no Fp4 !
Be very sure it is no Delta100 with ceap
price to foreign markets.

As Sherlok Holmes would stated : " If all
comon posibilities failured the One wich
is.............."

So it is the same we see in the kentmere
box above.
In the past Ilford pruduced exact this stuff and marked it as "kentmere" .

Before may be kentmere pruduced it and
now Kentmere belongs to Harman/Ilford.

Whatever - the question is what is that
film ISO 100 / ISO 400.

It is the film we all know as Kentmere 100/400 and now look : have you heard
aboud IlfordPan100 in these fine new boxes?
Is it improved Pan F now with ISO 100 ?
And the new IlfordPan400 is it cheap Hp5 in new boxes?

Be sure what it is !

And coming to Agfa Films - here it is indeed more confusion.

But looking to new Rollei Retro 100.
Retro 400 have a guess!

What is it - exact this stuff!

Imagine Lomo is coming with "brand new" bw emulsion in the next week.

WITH cheapest price to Lomo and
outstanding marketing -you have to Pay for.
If it is Lomo100 /Lomo400 and it is no
Foma guess what it is.....................

with regards

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

To acquire a brand name one typically does not buy lock, stock and barrel.
One only would do so if that other stuff is of interest too, or if the seller is still unaware of the brand value, and by that one can make a bargain by buying the whole shebang.

Whatever they bought they got the right to use the brand on a new product.