"New" film available from JCH

[mooseontheloose]

Bellamy from Japan Camera Hunter is now offering a new film, basically a revived AGFA surveillance film. It will only be available in Japan, but he'll ship worldwide. He's currently taking pre-orders with a projected ship date for the summer.

 

[Henning Serger]

Bellamy from Japan Camera Hunter is now offering a new film, basically a revived AGFA surveillance film. It will only be available in Japan, but he'll ship worldwide. He's currently taking pre-orders with a projected ship date for the summer.

Dear Rachelle,

sorry for pouring lots of water in the wine, but this film is neither 'new' nor 'revived'. Agfa Aviphot Pan 400S was discontinued some years ago (production; stock lasted longer). This film was not a real ISO 400/27° film, effective speed was lower. And only a little bit higher than the remaining Aviphot Pan 200. After the discontinuation, Agfa increased the effective speed of the Aviphot 200 a bit. After that the real speed difference between the discontinued Aviphot Pan 400S and the fresh production Aviphot Pan 200 was about only 1/3 stop.
The current Aviphot Pan 200 (which has a real speed in the ISO 50/18° - 160/23° range dependent on the developer) is sold as Rollei Superpan 200, Rollei Retro 400S and Rollei IR (all the same film).
Rollei Superpan 200 135 costs 3,95€ here in Germany. The JCH film is 975Yen, which is about 7,73€ at todays exchange rate.
So almost double the price for old stock film compared to fresh film from current production.
At least for me, that is not an attractive option. Looks more like the Lomography business strategy of selling old stock films at premium prices.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Soeren]

Hey who poured gazoline in my gazoline?
Thanks for the info. I have some superpan in my freezer and now I know it's aliases

 

[mooseontheloose]

From the comments on his website:

Comment: Agfa Aviphot Pan 400S, right? Still being made but no longer sold as an Agfa retail product. At this price point, I’ll stick with Kodak materials, thanks.
JCH: No, it isn’t. This is an older discontinued film. I would love to make it cheaper, but seeing as I am not Kodak it is hard to find the money to do so.

I'll admit the price is probably too high for most people, but for those of us in Japan, the cost for one roll of 35mm film (975 yen) is around the same price as similar offerings (Tri-X 937 yen, HP5+ 1010 yen, Rollei Retro 400s 896 yen) - film is not cheap here by any means.

 

[Peter Schrager]

These films are get over at get over prices
Nothing special...If I wanted to use a surveillance film I'd commit a crime
Have a nice day do reality check..support people who actually make film
Best peter

 

[Henning Serger]

From the comments on his website:

Comment: Agfa Aviphot Pan 400S, right? Still being made but no longer sold as an Agfa retail product. At this price point, I’ll stick with Kodak materials, thanks.
JCH: No, it isn’t. This is an older discontinued film. I would love to make it cheaper, but seeing as I am not Kodak it is hard to find the money to do so.

I'll admit the price is probably too high for most people, but for those of us in Japan, the cost for one roll of 35mm film (975 yen) is around the same price as similar offerings (Tri-X 937 yen, HP5+ 1010 yen, Rollei Retro 400s 896 yen) - film is not cheap here by any means.

Agfa Aviphot Pan 400S was also offered under a different name as surveillance film. Two names - same film. Maybe he has bought old stock from the surveillance label. It doesn't matter.
Because it is old stock, not produced anymore. When it is gone, it's gone. Therefore he cannot make a sustainable offer for a long term future for this film.
What the market needs is support from the film shooters for real, current, fresh film production!
Every cent which is spent on such leftover old stock is lost for the support of the current, fresh film production. You can spend your dollar only once, not twice. And the current general problem in the market is the demand, that it is not enough money spent on fresh film to keep the lines running.

Bellamy Hunt has always been one of the most prominent and loudest critics of manufacturers when they had to stop the production of a film type because of too low demand.
And now his activity is hurting demand of current, fresh film production.
It is counterproductive what he is doing.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[gzhuang]

Hunt shoots with a digital Leica? I guess it's make hay while the sun shines from now on.

 

[iandvaag]

Henning, are you sure that all those films you mentioned are the same? I've done some digging, and the spectral sensitivity curves don't look the same on the data sheets I found. It seems to me like three separate films with several aliases:
#1
Rollei IR400, spectral sensitivity goes past 800nm, as it is somewhat sensitive to infrared
Aviphot Pan400s, identical curve to the above

#2
Aviphot Pan200, spectral sensitivity drops off somewhere around 775nm.
Rollei Superpan 200, same curve as above (aviphot pan200)

#3
Rollei Retro400s, spectral sensitivity drops off well before 700nm. Problem is, I found links for claiming "Rollei Retro400s" that took me to the datasheet for aviphot pan200. There is definitely a lot of confusion out there. This is almost certainly not a true 400 emulsion as you suggested in your post.

It seems like these are three separate emulsions to me. At the very least #1 seems different from #2 & #3 (which may be the same).

As an aside, I totally agree with you on the point of buying fresh film.

 

[iandvaag]

Also RPX 400 looks like it could be #3 as well...

 

[Anon Ymous]

Also RPX 400 looks like it could be #3 as well...

According to the linked document, RPX400 is on an acetate base, not the polyester base of the Aviphot films. So no, Retro 400S and RPX400 are not the same. IIRC its a rebadge of the Kentmere 400.

 

[Henning Serger]

I'll admit the price is probably too high for most people, but for those of us in Japan, the cost for one roll of 35mm film (975 yen) is around the same price as similar offerings (Tri-X 937 yen, HP5+ 1010 yen, Rollei Retro 400s 896 yen) - film is not cheap here by any means.

Hi Rachelle,

you can get Rollei Retro 400S for only 550 Yen per roll in Japan from Silversalt:
http://www.silversalt.jp/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_2&products_id=109

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Henning Serger]

Henning, are you sure that all those films you mentioned are the same?

Yes, I am sure. Because
1. I've tested all these films under identical conditions and got exactly the same results.
2. Other photographers have tested all these films under identical conditions and also got exactly the same results.
3. Maco has confirmed it to me that these films are Aviphot Pan 200.
4. Maco has confirmed it to other photographers that these films are Aviphot Pan 200.

I've done some digging, and the spectral sensitivity curves don't look the same on the data sheets I found.

Well, I am again and again amused in this unshakable belief of film photographers in data sheets, as if they were sent by god himself .
The reality is, sometimes data sheets are also marketing tools. That is the case here.
The first version of Rollei IR has been the Aviphot Pan 400S. That film has been discontinued (production) for more than six years ago. When this version was sold out as Rollei IR, Maco switched to the (almost identical, see my posting above) Aviphot Pan 200, which was already sold as rollei Superpan 200. But the datasheet of the first Rollei IR version stayed online.
Rollei Retro 400S was introduced when stocks of Rollei Retro 400 (that was Agfapan 400 from the last production at the Agfa plant in Leverkusen, Germany) were depleted. Again Aviphot Pan 200 have been used for Retro 400S, and as developing times the times for push processing were listed in the data sheet. And the spectral sensivity curve got a little "make-up" .

Best regards,
Henning

 

[mooseontheloose]

Hi Rachelle,

you can get Rollei Retro 400S for only 550 Yen per roll in Japan from Silversalt:
http://www.silversalt.jp/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_2&products_id=109

Best regards,
Henning

Henning, yes, I know that, that's where I get all my Rollei film plus other chemicals. I've been buying from them for a while. I was just quoting prices from Yodobashi, where all films are available in store, not online. I should have made that clear.

 

[Christiaan Phleger]

How can you know for certain that this is not the same emulsion recipe recently poured and slitted for Bellamy? So it could very well be a *new* fresh film.
My understanding is that the raw emulsion components can be kept and then poured on demand for a master roll, and that is what I think is more likely that Bellamy did.

 

[iandvaag]

Thanks for your help in clearing things up Henning. I guess I assumed that there were legal requirements for clear labeling and accuracy in data sheets.

 

[iandvaag]

Not to hijack this thread, but based on your tests, does this film have any more infrared sensitivity than Ilford SFX?

 

[Henning Serger]

How can you know for certain that this is not the same emulsion recipe recently poured and slitted for Bellamy? So it could very well be a *new* fresh film.

Well, please read first what Bellamy Hunt has written. He clearly said that this film is an old, discontinued film from the Agfa Belgium film programme.
If it really would be a film from fresh production (= current coating), why he should then give wrong information?

My understanding is that the raw emulsion components can be kept and then poured on demand for a master roll, and that is what I think is more likely that Bellamy did.

Your understanding is wrong. That is not the way Agfa (Belgium) works. That factory has huge coating capacities, it is one of the biggest manufacturers worldwide (some time ago they published their production volume of PCB films alone with more than 1 million m² p.a.). They need minimal production runs of several thousand m², means many master rolls for a minimum production run. And to do that you need a really huge investment. Very very unlikely that a company like JCH, a one man company, could make such an investment.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Henning Serger]

Not to hijack this thread, but based on your tests, does this film have any more infrared sensitivity than Ilford SFX?

Yes, both the old, discontinued Aviphot Pan 400S, as well as the current Aviphot Pan 200 have a higher infrared sensivity compared to SFX 200. For infrared photography the Aviphot Pan 200 works best with a 715 nanometer IR-filter. Then you can get an excellent Wood-Effect.
Here two examples from me:
http://www.high-end-scans.de/img/bilder/web/Serger_SWD_RS200_01_4000ppi.jpg
http://www.high-end-scans.de/img/bilder/web/Serger_SWD_RS200_02_4000ppi.jpg

Best regards,
Henning

 

[mnemosyne]

I think it's a bit funny that this film is marketed by JCH as a film for "street photography". From my own albeit limited experience with the Agfa Aviphot material it is neither 400 speed nor has it anything like a wide exposure latitude (which is something I would expect from a film labeled as "street"), quite the contrary. It is a specialist film that gives fine grain but has to be tested out, exposed and developed carefully.
If you fancy street photography, there are some great classic films out there that appear to be a much better choice because for that application they are "real" 400 speed and give you wider exposure latitude and flexibility and a great look. Tri-X, HP5+ or Kentmere 400 come to my mind. For those who live in Japan and suffer from the hefty price hikes for the classic materials from Kodak and Ilford in recent years you could give the Oriental New Seagull 400 a try. Price is 800 Yen for a 36 exp roll at Yodobashi. It is Made in the UK (=Harman) and as such probably not unsimilar to Kentmere 400, which is a great film for street photography.

 

[MDR]

From the JCH website "This is a freshly produced emulsion with an expiry date of 2020. The film was no longer being produced and I had it put back into production. And for the record, this is not re-spooled Rollei Retro 400s." He apparently corrected the text after reading some posts on the internet. So this is indeed a new film or more exactly a reintroduced product. Good news http://www.japancamerahunter.com/2016/03/film-news-announcing-jch-streetpan-400-film/

 

[Christiaan Phleger]

Ok well then how about Bellamy was able to figure out when the next production run would be and secured an amount off to slit and package. I just don't understand all the insistence that this is not what he said he did. He had made a new batch of an established emulsion, its now for sale. Perhaps the anger comes from not figuring out how to do that before he did.

 

[pentaxuser]

. So no, Retro 400S and RPX400 are not the same. IIRC its a rebadge of the Kentmere 400.

Well we either believe the former Simon Galley or not or we believe that now Ilford/Harman has been taken over by Pemberstone, the policy has changed but just to repeat what S Galley said on several occasions: Ilford does not re-badge its films of which Kentmere is one.

pentaxuser

 

[Anon Ymous]

Well we either believe the former Simon Galley or not or we believe that now Ilford/Harman has been taken over by Pemberstone, the policy has changed but just to repeat what S Galley said on several occasions: Ilford does not re-badge its films of which Kentmere is one.

pentaxuser

To be honest, I only remember him saying that they won't rebrand Ilford films, I don't remember anything about Kentmere. You can also read some interesting details about another reincarnation here: https://www.fotoimpex.de/shopen/films/fotoimpex-chm-400-13536.html

 

[pentaxuser]

To be honest, I only remember him saying that they won't rebrand Ilford films, I don't remember anything about Kentmere. You can also read some interesting details about another reincarnation here: https://www.fotoimpex.de/shopen/films/fotoimpex-chm-400-13536.html

When Kentmere was Kentmere it only made paper as far as I know. When Kentmere was incorporated into Harman a range of films called Kentmere was introduced by Harman. These were not films commissioned by another manufacturer

If Simon was excluding a Harman film that was called Kentmere simply because it was not called Ilford and not declaring this was not covered by the no re-badging policy then he has fallen in my estimation as a person of integrity.

I do not believe this to be the case.

pentaxuser

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

Simon has said more than once in this same forum that nor Ilford nor Kentmere films would be re-branded.
You can search for these statements.