New film Amber 800T Chinese repackage of V3 800T?

[Helge]

No clear origin though it is most certainly Vision3 800T.
Do a search, no one official link that I can find.
A serious competititor to Cinestill?

 

[Munky]

I've seen the same in Russia and somewhere else I cant remember where, there's a lot of people doing it now!

 

[Helge]

I've seen the same in Russia and somewhere else I cant remember where, there's a lot of people doing it now!

Maybe time Kodak stepped up and did this themselves?

 

[halfaman]

Kodak has capacity for coating and sliting pancakes, but lots of constraints for confectioning 35mm rolls. So any business involving just the first two steps (like Cinestill's, Lomography's, Santa Color's) is interesting for them.

 

[Don_ih]

Actually, pretty much anyone can buy a 1000' roll of cinematic film from Eastman Kodak and then do whatever they want with it. Has there ever been any indication that Kodak has been giving a deal to anyone who repackages their film?
They likely don't give a deal to a production company making a movie - it is movie film, after all - and a single movie can use more film than Cinestill sells in a year.

 

[MattKing]

Apparently Cinestill is buying a custom product - ECN process film with no remjet on it.

 

[Helge]

Actually, pretty much anyone can buy a 1000' roll of cinematic film from Eastman Kodak and then do whatever they want with it. Has there ever been any indication that Kodak has been giving a deal to anyone who repackages their film?
They likely don't give a deal to a production company making a movie - it is movie film, after all - and a single movie can use more film than Cinestill sells in a year.

Apparently Cinestill is buying a custom product - ECN process film with no remjet on it.

Getting remjet off and still having a sellable C41 product would seem an insurmountable obstacle.
All of them would need to be dealing directly with Kodak.
Putting ECN2 ready film into cartridges would be another prospect altogether.

 

[Don_ih]

Putting ECN2 ready film into cartridges would be another prospect altogether.

Yes. It would be running off 5 feet into a cartridge....

So, how is it Kodak can manage to sell this film without remjet to those companies? I thought the going mythology was they can't do anything unless it's done to a massive roll.

 

[MattKing]

Yes. It would be running off 5 feet into a cartridge....

So, how is it Kodak can manage to sell this film without remjet to those companies? I thought the going mythology was they can't do anything unless it's done to a massive roll.

CineStill is apparently buying a master roll at a time.
And Eastman Kodak has over the last few years worked hard at getting the size of a master roll down to a size that is more market feasible.
Still much larger than the master rolls made by Harman, but a lot smaller than before.
And speaking more generally, Eastman Kodak never stopped being in the custom coating business. The aero film that the U2 just stopped using is eveidence of that.

 

[Don_ih]

The aero film that the U2 just stopped using is eveidence of that.

Although they might have 1000 rolls in a freezer.

 

[MattKing]

Although they might have 1000 rolls in a freezer.

They aren't spending money on freezer space and freezer electricity - except perhaps if a big order was fully prepaid, and the storage price has been factored in.
They are running lean!

 

[Don_ih]

They are running lean!

The US Air Force is running lean?

 

[MattKing]

No - Eastman Kodak is still making aero film, and I was referring to one of their likely big customers.
They are running lean. The US Air Force, probably not so much.

 

[AgX]

Apparently Cinestill is buying a custom product - ECN process film with no remjet on it.

But this might interfere with the non-public Kodak/ Kodak Alaris contract.

 

[cmacd123]

But this might interfere with the non-public Kodak/ Kodak Alaris contract.

we don't know the fine print in that contract, BUT if they are selling 35mm and 62mm pancakes of say 5219 but with the backing omitted, that is likely more an Industrial product than something Alaris might even be interested in Touching.

in the past Kodak did crack down on folks respooling Movie film, and implying that it was a kodak product, (once someone changes it they don't want it called Kodak, or any of the other trademarks. - although many of the folks spooling 5222 seem to get away with yellow labels and such ) But the cine still folks for example don't call their stuff 5219.

 

[AgX]

we don't know the fine print in that contract, BUT if they are selling 35mm and 62mm pancakes of say 5219 but with the backing omitted, that is likely more an Industrial product than something Alaris might even be interested in Touching.

But a product obviously intended to compete within Alaris' market.

 

[MattKing]

My understanding is that there has been some pandemic related disruption to the Eastman Kodak/Kodak Alaris relationship. Eastman Kodak has always been able to manufacture and supply custom versions of its movie stock.

 

[cmacd123]

My understanding is that there has been some pandemic related disruption to the Eastman Kodak/Kodak Alaris relationship. Eastman Kodak has always been able to manufacture and supply custom versions of its movie stock.

Plus financial, the deal was supposed to provide enough money to pay off the Kodak Limited pensions. But there was something about the pension plan having to go to the pension authorities a year or two ago. {which may be the reason for the Sino-Promise deal?) Can't tell the players without a scorecard, and the score card is only distributed behind closed doors.

 

[MattKing]

Plus financial, the deal was supposed to provide enough money to pay off the Kodak Limited pensions. But there was something about the pension plan having to go to the pension authorities a year or two ago. {which may be the reason for the Sino-Promise deal?) Can't tell the players without a scorecard, and the score card is only distributed behind closed doors.

You definitely can tell the players.
The at time of bankruptcy deal also offloaded most of Eastman Kodak's worldwide staffing and leasehold expenses to the new entity and transferred from the pension fund to the trustee in bankruptcy $600,000,000.00 to make it possible for Eastman Kodak to emerge from bankruptcy.
In 2020 the Kodak Limited Pension Plan (through Kodak Alaris) sold off part of the business that it got - the photo-chemical and colour paper business - because that business was earning less money than the proceeds of sale could earn - thus reducing the exposure the government Pension Plan security agency has in the event of the likely, future default of the plan. Apparently the Kodak Limited employees are like a lot of the retired Kodak employees around the world in that they have a very inconvenient tendency to live longer than the actuarial estimates of the time predicted when most of the monies were paid into the fund in the first place.
The point of my post was that apparently because of the pandemic there have been changes between Kodak Alaris and Eastman Kodak. That has nothing to do with the Sino-Promise business.

 

[brbo]

But a product obviously intended to compete within Alaris' market.

They've been making products that directly compete with Alaris for a number of years now...

 

[halfaman]

They've been making products that directly compete with Alaris for a number of years now...

Like Lomography Color Negative 100, 400 and 800 films...

 

[Don_ih]

No - Eastman Kodak is still making aero film, and I was referring to one of their likely big customers.
They are running lean. The US Air Force, probably not so much.

Where is it listed?
Why wouldn't the US Air Force have a freezer full of film?

 

[Helge]

My understanding is that there has been some pandemic related disruption to the Eastman Kodak/Kodak Alaris relationship. Eastman Kodak has always been able to manufacture and supply custom versions of its movie stock.

Please do go into more detail!

 

[Helge]

Having Aerocolor boxed by Kodak and not by some Finnish dudes with a Santa fixation would be awesome.

It’s a hugely interesting film that I was never aware of.

Any other sources for it?
Bulk?
Other than Russian of course.

 

[pentaxuser]

CineStill is apparently buying a master roll at a time.
And Eastman Kodak has over the last few years worked hard at getting the size of a master roll down to a size that is more market feasible.

Matt, this certainly suggests that Cinestill has seen and invested in what it believes to be a rival to C41 Kodak "still " films despite the problems or potential problems you cited with movie film

Is this because Cinestill has decided that the problems are sufficiently minor that its the movie film price differential is enough to make it viable for all but the purists amongst us who will pay the difference for the "real McCoy" i.e. show a RA4 print to a group of Joe Public and few if any would say that the prints do not look right?

pentaxuser