New emulsion

OP
OP

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Denise;

You have some good points, but I hardly have time to devote to writing, taping and experimenting not to mention the fact that I have several requests on my time to consult. In addition, this work is not finished.

Now, to add to it all, some people want to buy some of my formulas, making it all worth while as I have invested a lot to do this work ( something for me- finally! We can go on a real vacation instead of going to a workshop.). If I publish, where does this leave me financially for the money invested!? If someone offers me a royaldy or an outright payment for a formula and I give it away, the formula becomes worthless.

I hate to put it this way, but so far I have lost a lot on this. I do not want to make a profit, I want to break even! The total cost - income is a huge negative value. I could give it, but I doubt if you would belive me!

Ron
 

Vaughn

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I have several 5x7 modern glass plate holders -- I was thinking of trading them for film holders (I believe I traded Denise a couple -- Denise, I hope they worked out for you!).

But I think I will keep my little paws on those babies -- sounds like I might have need of them someday. What an interesting work-flow that would be...homemade silver gelatin glass plates printed on homemade carbon tissue.

Thanks, Ron.

Vaughn
 
OP
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I hope you saw my last glass plate examples.

PE
 

Vaughn

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Photo Engineer said:
I hope you saw my last glass plate examples.

PE
Click to expand...

Sorry, I did not. Must have missed them. May I please have a link to them...sorry for the trouble....

Vaughn

PS...did a search and found a post titled "Making a photographic plate by hand" is that the one you are referring to? I remember seeing something by you using the coating rod (well, not rod, but something like that.)
 
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dwross

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Hi Vaughn,

Yes! The film holders worked out just great. I thanked you over on LF, but come to think of it, you didn't reply, which isn't like you. I should have realized that you missed it. Here's what came of it: http://www.thelightfarm.com/Map/GlassNegatives/MapTopic.htm

Don't give away your film holders either. The Photographers' Formulary is selling a subbed film product called Melenex. I've just started working with it and it coats like a dream and is easily cut with a rotary paper cutter to fit film holders. The film is listed as out of stock right this minute because the Formulary is having fits with their film cutter. Blessed perfectionists that they are, they aren't selling until its right, but the stuff is worth the wait. I've made a first run through with an emulsion designed for the film. We've had so much rain here the moss is growing moss, so I had to resort to contact printing a step wedge onto the coated film. I then enlarged and printed the resulting negative on Ilford Multigrade. We should be seeing enough nice weather soon that I can get the 5x7 outside to expose negatives. Look for the results on the Film Negative page of The Light Farm in 1-2 weeks.
Here's what it looks like so far - a scan of the Ilford print and the negative it came from (a step wedge contact printed on handcoated Melenex.)

I would love to see you print homemade plates onto homemade carbon tissue.
Fun!

Denise
 
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dwross

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Ron,

Sad day. As much as I might understand and even sympathize with your desire to see a chunk of money, it's still sad to see your knowledge disappear into proprietary limbo. So much emulsion research had already gone that route. I have to say, it seems to me that selling DVD's and downloads could be a pretty good income, not 'giving away' at all, but it's time for me to pull my nose out of your business. The best of luck to you.

The Light Farm will continue on its open source mission. I'm having great luck with film emulsions and I will be posting the results soon. In addition, I'm working up a sampler of different papers coated first with homemade baryta. That adds a very nice extra dimension. We have five, and counting, emulsion makers ready soon to become Contributing Editors. That's the part I'm most excited about. I hope others will join us soon.

d
 

Vaughn

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Denise,

I had missed it. Glad it worked out for you! Good luck in-camera!!!

I wonder if one could get enough UV through a pinhole to expose a carbon tissue and form an image. Never heard of anyone doing it, but carbon printing (and other chromated gelatin processes) has been around for so long I would not be surprised to find out it has been tried and found not to work.

Vaughn
 

Kirk Keyes

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Denise - your print (on the left?) looks a lot sharper than the neg (on the right?) - it that correct?

Kirk
 
OP
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Denise, I don't wish a "chunk of money", just a return of what I have put into this. Remember, you and your husband are working, but I'm retired and on a fixed income. If my work is not sustained by some form of equivalent income then my work will have to come to an end. That is a simple truth.

PE
 
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dwross

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Vaughn,

I'm going to break one of my cardinal rules and take a guess about something I haven't tried personally. I suspect just about any aperture onto any material will work if you can give it enough time. How's that for profundity? But, I can just about visualize a beautiful, brightly lit pinhole-on-carbon tissue still life. What I'm seeing in my mind's eye is beautiful. Good luck!


From Kirk:

Denise - your print (on the left?) looks a lot sharper than the neg (on the right?) - it that correct?

Kirk,
The jpeg on the left is the film scanned on a flatbed scanner. Since there isn't an antihalation layer, the scannning light bounced around something fierce making the halos that look soft. The negative does have a slight real softening around the number 1 because my contact printing frame isn't quite tight enough for film on film. If I were planning on more of those kinds of tests I'd go get another layer or two of black felt. The lefthand jpeg is the negative enlarged through a 5x7 Zone IV enlarger with glass carrier, exposed for highest contrast on Ilford Multigrade.

Isn't it about time for you to come over to Newport for a beach day? I'll show you what I've been up to.
d
 
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Denise;

If you want AH in the film, try adding some tartrazine dye to the melt before coating. I believe that the liquid dyes in the grocery store has tartrazine in the yellow, but I'm not sure. You will need an equivalent to about 0.3 density in the film to see any improvement and you may need more. Remember that this will cost speed.

The other option is to coat some on the back which is very hard to do. I have several oxonol dyes that might work for that. It will not cost speed though.

PE
 

argus

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Thanks Ron, I indeed missed earlier posts. I was not really that interested in emulsions before.
Guess I'll have to read the whole subforum on the subject to get along.

Kind regards,
Geert
 
OP
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Denise;

I forgot to add that one of the biggest paybacks in teaching someone something is to see the student produce such wonderful work as you do. You are giving me a big payback in satisfaction seeing how you are taking to emulsion making and the quality of your work.

Many thanks.

PE
 

magic823

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I wish you were giving a class at the formulary this year, since I missed it last year.
 

Kirk Keyes

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Denise -thank's for the clarification.

And yes, it is time for a beach trip. We'll be in Manzanita weekend after this one. If you want to meet us there, that would be great! This weekend is Sophia's 2nd birthday!
 

Vaughn

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It would be a real hoot if it worked. Perhaps an all-day exposure is in order LOL! Probably would run into some chemical fogging with that time scale. I'll have to think this thru for my next carbon tissue making and printing session. I could even make a "glass plate negative" by doing a single transfer onto glass. My usual imagery is ultra sharp, but what the heck.

Hey Kirk! A big HB to Sophia! My boys turned 11 on Monday -- time flies!

Vaughn
 
OP
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Results are in

I have sensitivity studies on the new emulsion. As of yet I have not spectrally sensitized it (made it an ortho sensitive emulsion) and so you will have to make comparisons between raw, sulfur sensitized and sulfur + dye. It isn't hard if you just read below.

Picture #1 on the left is my 40 speed emulsion with ortho sensitization. At this point, no sulfur has been added and so it is about ISO 12. In the middle, you see what happens when you add the sulfur sensitization. The area under the curve is the speed of the emulsion.

On the right is the new raw emulsion. Its raw blue speed is nearly the speed of the middle emulsion which is ISO 40, and so when I finish the sulfur treatment, it will probably gain 1 - 2 stops at least.

The emulsion on the left was about 2 months old. It was the one shown in the DVD still posted here and has aged a bit unfortunately. The one on the right does not have green sensitizing dye. Why waste dye on an experiment? Right?

So, I think I have made a step forward. If this works out, the next step will be ISO 400. I lie. I gotta do all of this well before I go on from here and I think it will be too easy to fog it. Look at what happened to the one on the left. Too much light (IR) and time filming the DVD made it rather foggy. I also have to perfect UF washing, pumped makes and all of that stuff.

The defects you see are blisters and repellancy spots due to the fact that I used such small samples these were coated with no surfactant or hardener. For those that claim that an acid stop causes pinholes, the blister on the left scan shows how it actually shows up on unhardened or poorly hardened film. Not a pinhole, a blister.

The peak on the right is an artifact - a harmonic of UV, as I did not use a UV filter.

PE
 

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Ole

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Is that solarisation I see on the right scan?

It looks as if the numbers are lighter than the rest, and there's a lighter area in the lower part of the test?
 
OP
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Ole;

I am puzzled myself, but I think it is due to the extremely high speed. It is also probably helped by the lack of sulfur finish and by the lack of any other 'normal' addenda. But, since it is new to me, give me time to check it out properly. These are preliminary or first tests of something entirely new. I should have pointed that out.

PE
 

dwross

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Kirk Keyes said:
Denise -thank's for the clarification.

And yes, it is time for a beach trip. We'll be in Manzanita weekend after this one. If you want to meet us there, that would be great! This weekend is Sophia's 2nd birthday!
Click to expand...

Kirk,

Happy, happy to Sophia. It's unbelievable that she is already two - almost as unbelievable as that my munchkin just turned 25. Carpe diem, indeed.

For those of you who have not met Sophia, she is a perfection of female kinetic power and beauty - one of those people you'll say about someday, "I knew her when she was a baby".

We're having company the next two weekends and I won't be able to get away, but I'm planning on having an open studio day (almost open - I'll need a head count beforehand. You know my parking situation ) Saturday of Memorial Day weekend. Maybe you can come then and drag along a PPF (Portland Photographers' Forum) member or two with you.

Denise
 

J. Miller Adam

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Dear Photo Engineer,

You need a business plan! And perhaps someone to help you figure out how you can recoup all your time and effort. When I think of all the pseudo-instructional photography books that cram the shelves of my local Borders, few of which seem to contain much new information, I think your work would stand alone, perhaps next to Wilhelm's book.

This might be anathema to you and all on this site, but a very good internet marketer who is a man of actual integrity is Perry Marshall (www.perrymarshall.com) who has helped a lot of different folks make their business ventures succeed. He is the type who will talk to you for half an hour to decide if he can meet your needs – and then charge you an amazing amount for the next half hour ; )

There – now I've raised a subject even uglier than that unmentionable pixel-based thing

Delighted I found this place,

J. Miller Adam
 

Kirk Keyes

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Glad to see you made your first post in the emulsion forum, Adam. I hope you contribute more in the future!

Kirk
 

Emulsion

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Hi PE,

Congratulations on your progress!

When will your book/dvd be available for purchase? I'm keen to purchase a copy.

Thanks from,
Emulsion.
 
OP
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I have previewed Disk #1 for some people and hope to show #1 and #2 to a few people in 2 weeks. I have shown the book draft to a group of fellow engineers, but we only had time for a cursory glance and the consensus was that I was "almost there" and "going in the right direction". I have found that I may have to add another section to the book, for about 10 - 20 more pages.

Ole, in answer to your comment about solarization, the second batch also shows that same oddity, so I suspect that the new emulsion is more sensitive to solarization. Now, what is different, well, the Silver Nitrate is a new batch from a new source, the Gelatin is from a new source, and the Ammonia is from a new batch but old source. So..... One of my fellow engineers said I should take George Eastman's advice and "pray for the emulsion". I'm going to take that advice seriously.

But, the higher the speed, the harder things are to do "right". The emulsion will probably be about ISO 100 in-camera from my estimates right now.

PE
 
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