New Darkroom Design suggestions request

paul ron · Feb 22, 2016

CCLA said:
Hi Ken,

aren't the industrial blowers noisy? Then again I suppose any fan would be noisy. I was planning to have the exhaust fan go outside the house, but the intake be from the basement. We do get hot weather in Central Jersey so I would not want to have hot air coming into the room.
The negative pressure is also something I had not thought of and a good reason to have an intake to offset the pressure from the exhaust fan. I will give some thought to have a fan on the air inlet side as well.

claudio

Just put in a register on the basement side. That way you will get warm air in winter n cool during summer.

paul_c5x4 · Feb 23, 2016

One suggestion - Any sockets near the sinks should be wired to an RCB in the consumer unit (fuse board). If you can, it would be an idea to use waterproof sockets in that area.

Luis-F-S · Feb 23, 2016

CCLA said:
Anybody with a suggestion for a water filter? claudio

http://www.hassmfg.com/

has them (pun intended). Also put the outlets behind the sink at least 18" above the back splash to make sure no water gets into them. Note the print viewing light above with a dimmer switch right next to the outlets and also the cream colored dimmer for the exhaust fans just to the right of it. The two outlets to the right with the control valve plugged into it are switched so I can turn them off when not in use.

Ken Nadvornick · Feb 23, 2016

CCLA said:
...aren't the industrial blowers noisy? Then again I suppose any fan would be noisy. I was planning to have the exhaust fan go outside the house, but the intake be from the basement. We do get hot weather in Central Jersey so I would not want to have hot air coming into the room.
The negative pressure is also something I had not thought of and a good reason to have an intake to offset the pressure from the exhaust fan. I will give some thought to have a fan on the air inlet side as well.

If mounted inside, they could be. Mine are mounted outside the house. The ductwork (painted flat black inside the segments) enters and exits through an open exterior window which has been permanently (and tastefully) boarded up and paneled over. All I hear is the cool clean air flowing.

The units are wired through a PWM (pulse width modulated) fan speed controller. This allows me to reduce the fan speed to barely turning, if needed. When it's 20F/-7C outside, a trickle of incoming fresh air is all that is required.

Ken

ParkerSmithPhoto · Feb 23, 2016

Like Luis, I installed two switched outlets in the ceiling, one for the Thomas Duplex Super Safelight (got one for sale if anyone is interested) and another for a small viewing light which can be easily adjusted in any direction. Still working on the new sink.

Ken Nadvornick · Feb 23, 2016

The Hass Mfg. Intellifaucet computerized water-tempering thermostatic mixing valves are the best solution on the market, bar none. Precision designed, built, and operating, they are jaw-droppingly good. But they are also very expensive. I happen to have the same K250 unit mentioned above. There is also a D250 "economy" model, which depends heavily on one's definition of "economy".

If you can afford one, you won't regret it. But I am also very aware of price point sensitivity, having been there myself. So if you can't justify something like an Intellifaucet at the moment, perhaps consider designing a space to accommodate one in the future, then go for one of the more traditional and affordable all mechanical units if possible. Both solutions are far preferable to manual control.

I've done the manually-adjusting-hot-and-cold-faucets thing with a separate thermometer. It's a short-term solution that works for infrequent use. But I tired of the hassle pretty quickly.

Ken

Luis-F-S · Feb 23, 2016

Ken Nadvornick said:
The Hass Mfg. Intellifaucet computerized water-tempering thermostatic mixing valves are the best solution on the market, bar none. Precision designed, built, and operating, they are jaw-droppingly good. But they are also very expensive.
Ken

They come up used occasionally on the forums or on the 'Bay. Even new they're less than the cost of a good enlarger or enlarging lens. At least set up the plumbing to add one at a later date. I bought mine used through the LFF for 1/4 the cost of a new one. They can also be overhauled to basically as new condition for around 2 bills. Mine hails from 1992 and works perfectly. Get the smallest one they make which is one of the 250 series, either the D, E, or K, same just different features. They all work great! L

CCLA · Feb 23, 2016

After trying to incorporate all of the suggestions, this is the layout I came up with. I had to move the fan because to fit the room I need to rotate it 90 degrees.

Any additional suggestions are welcome.

claudio

MattKing · Feb 23, 2016

The very best place for the intake for air exhaust is over the back of your sink. That way any chemical fumes are drawn away from you.

The intake can be at the end of tubing or a pipe, with the exhaust fan at the other end.

Don't forget to include the possibility of a music source - many of us like to listen while we work.

Luis-F-S · Feb 23, 2016

Looking good. It would be good if you could move the exhaust fan behind the sink to try and get it to remove the fumes away from your face, and then possibly move the air inlet to where the exhaust fan is. That way, you'd get cross ventilation across part of the room. I built a fur-down over the sink, and installed two exhaust fans in that space, exhausting to the side. You can see them in the photo in my post #28 above and here is what it looked like before it was covered. That way you can exhaust to the side wall or by adding a bend to the wall behind you or above into the attic. L

CCLA · Feb 23, 2016

Again,

thank you for the suggestion. In order to do that I will have to route the exhaust fan all the way to the wall where the exhaust currently is. I think I could do it because I can run it along the back wall (where the sink is).

claudio

MattKing said:
The very best place for the intake for air exhaust is over the back of your sink. That way any chemical fumes are drawn away from you.

The intake can be at the end of tubing or a pipe, with the exhaust fan at the other end.

Don't forget to include the possibility of a music source - many of us like to listen while we work.

Luis-F-S said:
Looking good. It would be good if you could move the exhaust fan behind the sink to try and get it to remove the fumes away from your face, and then possibly move the air inlet to where the exhaust fan is. That way, you'd get cross ventilation across part of the room. I built a fur-down over the sink, and installed two exhaust fans in that space, exhausting to the side. You can see them in the photo in my post 28 above and here is what it looked like before it was covered. L

CCLA · Feb 23, 2016

Big change. I think moving the door to the new location gains me a ton of space inside? Any drawbacks that I did not think of?

Claudio

Luis-F-S · Feb 23, 2016

Looks good, just take the outlet out of the doorway & move it below the High White light switch. I used an "exterior" door on mine because they seal better than interior grade, so it's easier to make light proof. I put a small 1/2" x 2" high strip along the bottom threshold on the inside and painted it black to seal any light coming in along the bottom. If necessary, you can always put some felt strips along the inside to seal any leaks.

Ken Nadvornick · Feb 23, 2016

Your proposed layout in post #33 is potentially unsafe. But you have apparently fixed the issue in post #37.

The problem?

This is a single door design. (So is my darkroom.) In the event of an emergency where the occupant needs to get out of the darkroom quickly, installing the doors so they swing out and away from the danger, as you have designed, is an excellent choice. No one ever wants to have to back up toward the danger in order to open the door to escape from the danger.

But in post #33 you show what looks like a lift-up counter extension piece? Perhaps on hinges? Or free standing? When in place that could potentially block your only escape route. Not really a problem if you never need an escape route. But potentially a devastating problem if you do and the danger is severe enough. In that case your improved design will pay for itself in a single use.

This is the reason I don't like, and didn't install, one of those revolving doors in my darkroom. If I had a second escape path I may have considered it. But not if it's the only escape path.

Ken

CCLA · Feb 23, 2016

Yeah I did not notice that!!

CCLA · Feb 23, 2016

Ken,

thanks a lot for pointing that out to me. It is a great and possibly life saving observation!

claudio

Ken Nadvornick said:
Your proposed layout in post #33 is potentially unsafe. But you have apparently fixed the issue in post #37.

The problem?

This is a single door design. (So is my darkroom.) In the event of an emergency where the occupant needs to get out of the darkroom quickly, installing the doors so they swing out and away from the danger, as you have designed, is an excellent choice. No one ever wants to have to back up toward the danger in order to open the door to escape from the danger.

But in post #33 you show what looks like a lift-up counter extension piece? Perhaps on hinges? Or free standing? When in place that could potentially block your only escape route. Not really a problem if you never need an escape route. But potentially a devastating problem if you do and the danger is severe enough. In that case your improved design will pay for itself in a single use.

This is the reason I don't like, and didn't install, one of those revolving doors in my darkroom. If I had a second escape path I may have considered it. But not if it's the only escape path.

Ken

MattKing · Feb 23, 2016

You may prefer to have a little more space between the side wall and the Focomat enlarger - especially if you are left-handed like me!

Ken Nadvornick · Feb 23, 2016

CCLA said:
thanks a lot for pointing that out to me. It is a great and possibly life saving observation!

Just trying to help out. All it would take is dropping a single bottle of glacial acetic acid that broke or split when it hit the floor...

(My 1-gallon jug of glacial is plastic, and I keep it inside another 5-gallon heavy-duty plastic bucket to contain any unexpected leaks. And it lives on the floor, because... well... it can't fall any further than where it already is...)

Ken

Tim Stapp · Feb 24, 2016

Ken Nadvornick said:
... And it lives on the floor, because... well... it can't fall any further than where it already is...)

Ken

I learned a long time ago while working to put anything of and danger or value (hand power tools or measuring instruments on the floor. They will inevitably find their way there eventually

paul ron · Feb 24, 2016

Wow I like how the design evolved and so many great tips.

You'll appreciate the extra counter space at the enlargers.

Where are your safe lights?

Center the viewing light over the tray area.

Safety is always first on the list.... GFI, escape plan, chemicals stored low, good lighting and ventilation.

I hope we're all invited to the darkroom warming party?

CCLA · Feb 24, 2016

paul ron said:
Wow I like how the design evolved and so many great tips.

You'll appreciate the extra counter space at the enlargers.

Safety is always first on the list.... GFI, escape plan, chemicals stored low, good lighting and ventilation.

I hope we're all invited to the darkroom warming party?

The party is going to be in a couple of months. Before I build the darkroom I will have to paint a couple of rooms in the house (wife's rules). When I start building perhaps I will do a post to track it. Anyway I made a smaller change so that the drying cabinet can accommodate prints as well (with the thought to save some more space for storage). Here is the layout as it stands now:

Kilgallb · Feb 29, 2016

CCLA said:
The party is going to be in a couple of months. Before I build the darkroom I will have to paint a couple of rooms in the house (wife's rules). When I start building perhaps I will do a post to track it. Anyway I made a smaller change so that the drying cabinet can accommodate prints as well (with the thought to save some more space for storage). Here is the layout as it stands now:

I have a similar though smaller layout. One thing to think of is where is your towel holder. You need to store a towel where you can wash hands then dry to really keep the dry side dry.

In a darkroom this small pull chains on the white light and safelight are convenient and easy to decode by location or knots.

You can get more dry space by placing the film and print dryer cabinet outside the darkroom. You have to store your negatives, paper and unexposed film outside anyway so you need an outside the darkroom storage location anyway.

Make sure all outlets are on a GFI Breaker.

CCLA · Feb 29, 2016

Good thinking on the towel holder. I think I will place it by the sink closer to the JOBO side. As with regards to placing the dryer outside of the darkroom, I am not sure. My basement is unfinished and I would rather not bring wet prints and film out of the darkroom where they may pick up dust before going into the dryer.

claudio

Ai Print · Mar 1, 2016

Ah, ventilation...

I had to improvise quite a bit to ventilate my 20 square foot darkroom in a storage closet that is outside our condo, the actual workable area to stand in is about 8 square feet, not plumbed & has to share the space with lots of stored items and a refrigerator. The problem was I had to ventilate above and below the door so limited air movement due to it having narrow space in that regard. So I made sophisticated light traps that let air pass through and then had to completely seal off the developing tray and stacker box that contains the stop, fix, hypo and water filled holding tray. I made two developer tray hoods, one for 11x14 and one for 16x20, it works reasonably well for now.

My Jobo CPP3 lives on a shelf in our office / bedroom and comes out when I have enough 4x5 to run in the tub. The print drying screens live under our bed and are used in the office in a specially designed rack that folds out of the way.

Anyway, I thought I would share some of the ventilation aspects of my space in case anyone was looking for ideas.

CCLA · Mar 2, 2016

Wow,

that's an efficient use of space! One thing I cannot figure out, does either of the tables move? In one picture the enlarger stand seems to be right next to the development stand and in the second there seem to be space between them.

claudio

claudio

New Darkroom Design suggestions request

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