New D76

[Keith Tapscott.]

I used the same time, temp and dilutions as I did when I previously used D76, and now I get different results.

That's a bit worrying David. I've just used up the last of my Adox D76 and I have just bought some Kodak D76.

I will keep in mind your feedback that you are getting negatives that are underdeveloped compared with previous packets of the Kodak product.

The return of ID11 is certainly a long time overdue.

 

[Milpool]

How close is Clayton's F76+ developer to the old or new D76?

Not close in formulation.

 

[David Lingham]

Just for clarity.
Ten years ago, you found that the recommended time and temperature combinations were suitable for you, and that you had no need back then to customize them to your preferences?
Were you working back then at or near 20C, and are you still working at or near 20C?

Matt, I’ve always kept my processing simple and used the manufactures data, for mixing dilutions and times. Temperature control is as consistent as possible.

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

I’m inclined to wait for ID11 now myself.

I am not sure if this helps and I do not want to misuse this forum for advertisement, but we stocked up on ID-11 prior to the closure of Tetenal´s and we are still able to supply: https://www.fotoimpex.com/chemistry/ilford-id-11-to-mix-1000-ml.html
Maybe this is a valuable information for some.

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

I used the same time, temp and dilutions as I did when I previously used D76, and now I get different results.

Can we send you a pack of our D-76? we would be interested in your findings. When we introduced it, we made it match developing times 100% to the last D-76 produced in Germany. We have not (yet) received new D-76 and we will for sure run test once we do but you could do this already.

 

[Steven Lee]

TBH I don't see what the big problem is. D76 and ID-11 are often cited as identical, but their development times in the HP5+ datasheet are not the same. Applies to other films also. According to the Ilford datasheet, ID-11 is weaker than D76, so perhaps Photosystems made a small adjustment to D76 formulation and now they're equal.

Personally, when I can't find ID-11 I've been using Ultrafine D76 and always recommend it. I have no idea why it's not better known/popular. Produces 100% identical results to ID-11 using the same times and also super cheap.

 

[Keith Tapscott.]

Can we send you a pack of our D-76? we would be interested in your findings. When we introduced it, we made it match developing times 100% to the last D-76 produced in Germany. We have not (yet) received new D-76 and we will for sure run test once we do but you could do this already.

I have used the Adox version of D76 and found it to be a very good product.
Will it still be available when ID11 is reintroduced?
It's just that I thought it was being produced to fill a void until the Kodak and Ilford products become available again.

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

I have used the Adox version of D76 and found it to be a very good product.
Will it still be available when ID11 is reintroduced?
It's just that I thought it was being produced to fill a void until the Kodak and Ilford products become available again.

Not at all. This was our first intention but, being ADOX, we could not let be it be just that- neither could we know that the others come back. We improved D-76. Our version dissolves below 30°C and is fit for upcoming EU regulations. We removed the borates, replaced the sequestering agent by a biodegradable and added Captura. Apart from this D-76 is now an ADOX trademark since the british-chinese licensing deal went belly up. It´s to iconic of a name to be up for grabs.

 

[dokko]

I always thought it would be great to see a controlled comparison between all variations of D-76 (Kodak, Ilford, Adox, self mixed, etc).
Actually I was thinking to do it myself, but due to workload and travel plans it realistically won't be possible until late September at earliest.

But if somebody wants to tackle it in the meantime, I'd gladly offer to scan some crops at 14'000ppi to see the difference in grain texture.

 

[beemermark]

D-76 (and D-23) have to be the simplest developer to mix yourself. A lot cheaper also. Has the EU now banned borates???

 

[john_s]

...................

This is from the latest MSDS updated 27 Feb 2024
....................
diboron trioxide CAS No.: 1303-86-2 1-3%
.............................

So still using Borax but not Boric Acid


Ian

Boric acid still listed in the MSDS. They like to use alternative names. it seems.

 

[Mal Paso]

I thought Kodak chemistry is Chinese now. I went to look and I've not one package of Kodak's on the shelf so I can't say. Kodak lost me with the brown Dektol. Kodak's ridgid anality was the backbone of photo processing, no more.

I'm trusting Photographer's Formulary now, just bought an assortment of chemicals and a grams scale. Triple beams are $40 delivered on ebay. Just processed Berger and TriX in homemade X-15 (phenidone D76) and am happy with the results. A batch of Hypo Clear is child's play and cheap.

 

[Mal Paso]

D-76 (and D-23) have to be the simplest developer to mix yourself. A lot cheaper also. Has the EU now banned borates???

Not banned just frowned upon.

 

[Steven Lee]

I thought Kodak chemistry is Chinese now. I went to look and I've not one package of Kodak's on the shelf so I can't say. Kodak lost me with the brown Dektol. Kodak's ridgid anality was the backbone of photo processing, no more.

I have great news for you, my friend. Kodak chemistry is now manufactured and branded by Photosys Inc, located in the USA. Coincidentally it is the same manufacturer who used to make it for Kodak before that division was sold.

What's even better is that Photosys now has their own website so you can order from them directly:

KODAK PROFESSIONAL

KODAK PROFESSIONAL Photographic Chemistry and Imaging Solutions

kodak.photosys.com

Basically it's the best possible outcome for Kodak-branded chemistry.

 

[retina_restoration]

I have great news for you, my friend. Kodak chemistry is now manufactured and branded by Photosys Inc, located in the USA. Coincidentally it is the same manufacturer who used to make it for Kodak before that division was sold.

What's even better is that Photosys now has their own website so you can order from them directly:

KODAK PROFESSIONAL

KODAK PROFESSIONAL Photographic Chemistry and Imaging Solutions

kodak.photosys.com

Basically it's the best possible outcome for Kodak-branded chemistry.

Even so, Kodak chemistry now has a reputation (not a good one) that they will have to overcome. I will no longer buy Kodak chemistry after my experiences with it 5+ years ago.

 

[TomR55]

How close is Clayton's F76+ developer to the old or new D76?

I believe that F76+ is a PQ (Phenidone in place of Metol) developer. I use Clayton F76+ as my daily developer. I also home-brewed and used D76 (and variants) for thirty years or so until a few years ago when I opted for Claytons F76+. I think that Clayton’s gives excellent results (excellent tonality, fine-grain and open-shadow areas) with traditional as well as T-grained films. I find it easier to vary dilutions if I really have a roll that needs more or less contrast (rare). I also find it convenient (as it’s a liquid) and it lasts about three months if stored in tightly sealed containers in a dark, cool place.

 

[ags2mikon]

I don't think I would worry about Photosys making shoddy products. They supply both the graphic arts and medical imaging industries. Screw-ups there are real expensive. Not like my 15 dollar roll of film with summer vacation on both ends and Christmas in the middle.

 

[Mal Paso]

I have great news for you, my friend. Kodak chemistry is now manufactured and branded by Photosys Inc, located in the USA. Coincidentally it is the same manufacturer who used to make it for Kodak before that division was sold.

What's even better is that Photosys now has their own website so you can order from them directly:

KODAK PROFESSIONAL

KODAK PROFESSIONAL Photographic Chemistry and Imaging Solutions

kodak.photosys.com

Basically it's the best possible outcome for Kodak-branded chemistry.

Thanks! I bookmarked the site but I'm pretty well fixed for now. I probably have enough for 50 gallons of developer.

Kodak used to supply all my raw chemicals in brown glass jars, I miss that but Photographer's Formulary's caps don't rust.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

+1
I won't buy Kodak D-76 anymore because the Kodak chemistry has been so unreliable in the past decade. They seem to think tweaking the recipe for D-76 is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. No thanks. I will make my own at home, from the published recipe (Darkroom Cookbook)

+1

 

[MattKing]

I have great news for you, my friend. Kodak chemistry is now manufactured and branded by Photosys Inc, located in the USA. Coincidentally it is the same manufacturer who used to make it for Kodak before that division was sold.

What's even better is that Photosys now has their own website so you can order from them directly:

KODAK PROFESSIONAL

KODAK PROFESSIONAL Photographic Chemistry and Imaging Solutions

kodak.photosys.com

Basically it's the best possible outcome for Kodak-branded chemistry.

To be more accurate, Photosys was one of the manufacturers that were used for some of the Kodak branded product, during some of the periods in question, for some of the international markets.
Since Eastman Kodak and/or its subsidiaries stopped doing the actual manufacturing a few decades ago - it was a fair bit of time before the bankruptcy - there were a lot of different third party manufacturers involved, and in numerous ocassions, some products were manufactured by more than one, depending on the market they were sold into.
To a great extent, the same applies to Ilford branded chemicals, although there hasn't been nearly as many.
The good news is that Photosys has been around a long time - they were the company that brought Unicolor products into the world.
The strange part of the news is something that we must surely be used to now - Photosys don't do their own distribution.
Even if you contact Photosys through their website, it is their distributor Cinestill who gets back to you.

 

[mshchem]

I would go with the best distributor. For example a few years ago when Tetenal went bankrupt I bought up several packages of Ilford Bromophen. One of the packages I received was made in England! So that made it about 15 years old .

Sounds like Fotoimpex has ID-11, a known quantity, maybe a couple years old. Ilford will make sure any new product with it's brand will be OK. Just so it's a known thing, like what Fotoimpex has on hand.

 

[Ian Grant]

Boric acid still listed in the MSDS. They like to use alternative names. it seems.

Not quite true, they are different compounds. So the effects on D76 buffering may be slightly different.

CAS No: 10043-35-3

• Boric acid (H3BO3)
• Boracic acid
• Orthoboric acid
• Boron trihydroxide
• Borofax

CAS No.: 1303-86-2

• Boron oxide (B2O3)
• Boric oxide
• Boron sesquioxide
• Boron trioxide
• Fused boric acid

There are more alternative names.

Ian

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

Not banned just frowned upon.

They are not fully banned but already limited to below 5%. Above 5% the product has to be labeled as a poison and you cannot sell it to amateurs any longer. This already had effect on most traditional recipes as Borax was usually around 8%-12% and higher. The situation is like this since about 10 years.

 

[john_s]

Not quite true, they are different compounds. So the effects on D76 buffering may be slightly different.

CAS No: 10043-35-3

• Boric acid (H3BO3)
• Boracic acid
• Orthoboric acid
• Boron trihydroxide
• Borofax

CAS No.: 1303-86-2

• Boron oxide (B2O3)
• Boric oxide
• Boron sesquioxide
• Boron trioxide
• Fused boric acid

There are more alternative names.

Ian

I thought boric anhydride would become boric acid once dissolved. I assume that it's there as part of the borax/boric acid buffer system.

 

[runswithsizzers]

I have great news for you, my friend. Kodak chemistry is now manufactured and branded by Photosys Inc, located in the USA. Coincidentally it is the same manufacturer who used to make it for Kodak before that division was sold.

What's even better is that Photosys now has their own website so you can order from them directly:

KODAK PROFESSIONAL

KODAK PROFESSIONAL Photographic Chemistry and Imaging Solutions

kodak.photosys.com

Basically it's the best possible outcome for Kodak-branded chemistry.

Looking around on the Photosys website, I noticed the description for KODAK PROFESSIONAL D-76 includes this comment:
"Normal and push/pull processing times available at The Massive Development Chart by Digital Truth."

To me, one of the biggest advantages of buying developing chemistry from a big, name-brand manufacturer is (was) that they provided some kind of data sheet with recommended starting times and temps, shelf life, etc. Apparently, now all the information we are going to get from Kodak is what will fit printed on the product label?

In my mind, abdicating control of recommended times and temperatures to a third-party, black-box database like The Massive Development Chart shows how far Kodak has fallen.