New D76

[David Lingham]

In common with many people I recently bought D76 because of the current unavailability of ID11. I did use D76 for a number of years before switching to Ilford products when Kodak became hard to obtain here in the UK. This present incarnation of Kodak D76 doesn’t seem to perform as I remember it did. When comparing 35mm FP4 from my archive that have been processed in an earlier version of D76, they appear to have more density. I’ve found that with a roll of recently processed 35mm FP4, in the latest version of D76 and using the same times and dilutions as I always have done, in comparison the pre exposed numbers are not as solid, neither is the leader as dense, which does suggest underdevelopment. Making me question if it is the same product as it was ten years ago. Just wondering if anyone else has noticed this.

 

[Ian Grant]

In a thread earlier today. #93, I mentioned the D-76 that was roughly half-way between the original formula and D-76d.

But look at the 2015 D-76 MSDS, no Borax or Boric Acid. listed.

Safety Data Sheet
Revision Date: 09/28/2015
Z17000000084/Version: 5.0
Print Date: 11/05/2015
Page: 3/14

85 - 90 Sodium sulphite (7757-83-7)
1 - 5 Hydroquinone (123-31-9)
1 - 5 Bis(4-hydroxy-N-methylanilinium) sulphate (55-55-0)
0.1 - < 1 Pentetic acid, pentasodium salt (140-01-2)
0.1 - < 1 Boric anhydride (1303-86-2)


This is from the latest MSDS updated 27 Feb 2024


Sodium Sulfite CAS No.: 7757-83-7
hydroquinone CAS No.: 123-31-9 3-5%
Borax Pentahydrate CAS No.: 12179-04-3 1-3%
bis(4-hydroxy-N-methylanilinium) sulphate CAS No.: 55-55-0 1-3%
diboron trioxide CAS No.: 1303-86-2 1-3%
Diethylenetriaminepenta acetic acid CAS No.: 67-43-6 <1% Eye Irrit. 2, H319

So still using Borax but not Boric Acid


Ian

 

[Milpool]

I think there are too many variables involved to draw any conclusions. You’d really need to have done a controlled comparison (obviously impossible in this case). Otherwise I don’t think much can be said. Who knows, it could even be the film. While it is unlikely D-76 would have changed that much, anything is possible.

 

[xkaes]

Whether it's a change in the D-76 or the film or both, simply run your own tests. It's always the best approach -- since all your other gear & method is specific to you.

 

[Dali]

Cannot tell you. My D76 is home made, so I avoid this kind of inconvenience.

 

[brian steinberger]

I recently discovered the same thing as I reported in the ID-11 alternative thread. Current D-76 seems to be weaker than previously available ID-11. That’s my experience. I’m sure more exposure and longer development times would possibly equal my previous results but I’m not interested in losing film speed so I’m holding out for ID-11.

 

[pentaxuser]

You'd have thought that the maker of the latest D76 would have mentioned what effect, if any, changes to it had affected development times. Hardly makes sense to herald a "new" D76 knowing it will cause former users or even new users to stick to the original times and then saying nothing?

I am assuming that before releasing it tests were carried out so if longer dev times were needed this would have been discovered

pentaxuser

 

[David Lingham]

I think there are too many variables involved to draw any conclusions. You’d really need to have done a controlled comparison (obviously impossible in this case). Otherwise I don’t think much can be said. Who knows, it could even be the film. While it is unlikely D-76 would have changed that much, anything is possible.

Go back 10yrs, using 35mm FP4 and D76, mixed as per instructions and processing to the Kodak suggested time and dilution. Fast forward to the present day, same film, same developer (allegedly), same mixing and development procedure, different result. That’s about as scientific as I can get. I’ve been processing film for nearly 50yrs and when returning to a product, which I have done several times, it usually works in the same way.

 

[David Lingham]

I recently discovered the same thing as I reported in the ID-11 alternative thread. Current D-76 seems to be weaker than previously available ID-11. That’s my experience. I’m sure more exposure and longer development times would possibly equal my previous results but I’m not interested in losing film speed so I’m holding out for ID-11.

I’m inclined to wait for ID11 now myself.

 

[brian steinberger]

I’m inclined to wait for ID11 now myself.

I’m no expert on Kodaks D-76. Hardly at all. I, like you just bought a package to help me get by without ID-11 and noticed the same as you. Others maybe haven’t noticed any difference. Im not interested in experimenting anymore. Hopefully the new ID-11 is same as the old and I can move on. The rolls of film are piling up. I have two boxes of ID-11 I pre ordered from B&H months ago. Hopefully they’ll be here in the next two weeks.

 

[cliveh]

I would have thought D76 would be highly consistent and have never had a problem. Perhaps you are still developing the film as you would in ID11 and have not adjusted for what is best time/temp in D76?

 

[xkaes]

Im not interested in experimenting anymore. Hopefully the new ID-11 is same as the old and I can move on.

That apparently is a big IF. There's no need to "experiment", but apparently it is a good idea to "test" -- or as commonly heard, "Trust, but verify".

 

[David Lingham]

I would have thought D76 would be highly consistent and have never had a problem. Perhaps you are still developing the film as you would in ID11 and have not adjusted for what is best time/temp in D76?

I used the same time, temp and dilutions as I did when I previously used D76, and now I get different results.

 

[Don_ih]

If you buy a new pack of D76, mix it according to instructions, and it behaves differently than any old pack of D76 or ID11, for that matter, there's something wrong with your new pack.

neither is the leader as dense

Should not happen in good developer. The leader should be at maximum density well before the development of the film is done.

 

[Ian Grant]

That apparently is a big IF. There's no need to "experiment", but apparently it is a good idea to "test" -- or as commonly heard, "Trust, but verify".

Ilford has stated that the only differences you will notice with ID-11, Microphen, Perceptol,& Bromophem, will be the newly designed packaging.

There's absolutely no reason why there would be any changes in terms of use and results.

Ian

 

[cliveh]

I used the same time, temp and dilutions as I did when I previously used D76, and now I get different results.

Are you mixing it up in the same way? Has the pH of your water changed?

 

[retina_restoration]

Cannot tell you. My D76 is home made, so I avoid this kind of inconvenience.

+1
I won't buy Kodak D-76 anymore because the Kodak chemistry has been so unreliable in the past decade. They seem to think tweaking the recipe for D-76 is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. No thanks. I will make my own at home, from the published recipe (Darkroom Cookbook)

 

[Doremus Scudder]

Kodak seems to be actively destroying whatever reputation they have left. If D-76 indeed has problems, then there's nothing left to trust... Any word from Kodak regarding this? (Whoever "Kodak" is these days.)

Doremus

 

[MattKing]

How close is your time and temperature to the time and temperature recommendation attached to the product?
Is there a possibility that the newest version is actually closer to those recommendations?
I ask, because all the Kodak darkroom chemicals have gone through a myriad of changes - constituent component suppliers, manufacturers, packaging, distribution entities - during those very tumultuous years.
The current product was probably designed to respond the same way as the old specifications set out, but they would have been required to design around all sorts of modern changes to make that happen.

 

[xkaes]

There's absolutely no reason why there would be any changes in terms of use and results.

So said one of my favorite rock bands -- Blind Faith.

 

[David Lingham]

How close is your time and temperature to the time and temperature recommendation attached to the product?

As close as I can be, I’m fairly attentive to details like thst.

 

[David Lingham]

Are you mixing it up in the same way? Has the pH of your water changed?

Mixing the same way, same water supply. If there’s any change in the mains water it hasn’t affected the consistency of Ilford products in the last 10yrs.

 

[MattKing]

As close as I can be, I’m fairly attentive to details like thst.

Just for clarity.
Ten years ago, you found that the recommended time and temperature combinations were suitable for you, and that you had no need back then to customize them to your preferences?
Were you working back then at or near 20C, and are you still working at or near 20C?

 

[cliveh]

Mixing the same way, same water supply. If there’s any change in the mains water it hasn’t affected the consistency of Ilford products in the last 10yrs.

Could you have made a dilution error you are unaware of?

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

How close is Clayton's F76+ developer to the old or new D76?