New Cinestill 400D film announced

BAP888 · Mar 21, 2022

Campaign here: https://cinestillfilm.com/products/making-a-new-color-film-400dynamic

Looks like they'll be doing 135 and a small amount of 120 to start, and if the campaign really succeeds they'll add 4x5.

The campaign states that the new film "continue(s) CineStill’s ongoing tradition of motion picture film emulsions made for still photographers," so if I had to guess I'd say this is Vision 250D with the remjet removed.

Apparently can be rated anywhere between 200 and 800 with normal C-41 processing, and pushed up to 3200.

Combined with Kodak's announcement earlier today of Gold 200 in 120, today is shaping up to be a banner day for film shooters.

film_man · Mar 21, 2022

https://cinestillfilm.com/products/making-a-new-color-film-400dynamic

If this is anything like 50D in ISO 400 I don't see me shooting anything else in 35mm.

pentaxuser · Mar 21, 2022

film_man said:
https://cinestillfilm.com/products/making-a-new-color-film-400dynamic

If this is anything like 50D in ISO 400 I don't see me shooting anything else in 35mm.

So who is actually making this film and what does the word "make" mean? It is clear to you that this film will be "made" come what may or given it seems to be a kickstarter film does it require a minimum number of orders before the making machinery can be started?

Thanks

pentaxuser

Dirb9 · Mar 21, 2022

pentaxuser said:
So who is actually making this film and what does the word "make" mean? It is clear to you that this film will be "made" come what may or given it seems to be a kickstarter film does it require a minimum number of orders before the making machinery can be started?

It's Vision 3 250D, with Cinestill's 'adjustment' for processing in C41 instead of ECN2, see also Vision 500T becoming 800T when sold by Cinestill. The 'Kickstarter' format in odd, perhaps a way to gauge interest before placing the order to Kodak.

halfaman · Mar 21, 2022

film_man said:
If this is anything like 50D in ISO 400 I don't see me shooting anything else in 35mm.

Well, there is a Vision3 250D in Kodak portfolio....

Paul Howell · Mar 21, 2022

With their current line up are they ordering a roll and customize cutting and loading or using the odd end of roll?

pentaxuser · Mar 21, 2022

Thanks for the reply to help clarify matters, Dirb9

pentaxuser

Arcadia4 · Mar 21, 2022

Essentially for the colour camera films they appear to buy a custom coating of the motion picture product off eastman kodak without the remjet layer (which makes more sense than trying to remove it later). So they are ordering master roll quants converted to their requirements and being relatively small its probably cash upfront rather than credit. So a kickstarter makes sense to help with cash flow.

Cholentpot · Mar 21, 2022

Vision 3 250D is one of the best color emulsions I've ever used. If this is the stuff just shoot it at 250, ignore the 400 box speed.

This is 250D in 35mm shot in half-frame. Excellent stuff.

MattKing · Mar 21, 2022

If you take the remjet off any film, all that nice increased halation will boost the ISO rating appreciably.

Cholentpot · Mar 21, 2022

MattKing said:
If you take the remjet off any film, all that nice increased halation will boost the ISO rating appreciably.

Not sure if serious...

MattKing · Mar 21, 2022

Yes, serious.
It provides a built in speed boost and all the other benefits (?) of a bit of extra flare.

cmacd123 · Mar 21, 2022

MattKing said:
Yes, serious.
It provides a built in speed boost and all the other benefits (?) of a bit of extra flare.

+20

Cholentpot · Mar 21, 2022

MattKing said:
Yes, serious.
It provides a built in speed boost and all the other benefits (?) of a bit of extra flare.

RemJet slows film down? Cinestill always talked about how C-41 is what gives it the boost.

MattKing · Mar 21, 2022

Cholentpot said:
RemJet slows film down? Cinestill always talked about how C-41 is what gives it the boost.

Nope.
Remjet keeps the light from reflecting off the back and coming back into the emulsion to expose it again. Remjet is the most effective way of doing that. Regular C-41 film uses other methods, as does 120 film, which also uses black backing paper.
With the remjet gone, and light coming at the emulsion from both sides, it takes less light to expose the emulsion - i.e. the film is more sensitive/has a higher ISO rating.
Contrast and resolution is less, of course.

MattKing · Mar 21, 2022

The C-41 may speed it up too, but that is because C-411 films are supposed to be higher contrast than ECN films, which are designed to be printed to film, rather than paper, and therefore need to be lower contrast.
A process designed to produce higher contrast will boost true speed a little bit too.

cmacd123 · Mar 21, 2022

MattKing said:
Nope.
Remjet keeps the light from reflecting off the back and coming back into the emulsion to expose it again. Remjet is the most effective way of doing that
With the remjet gone, and light coming at the emulsion from both sides, it takes less light to expose the emulsion
Contrast and resolution is less, of course.

The light bouncing back will of course not be at the same location, (it will spread out) so you have a "Holo" effect. which might make fro "dreamy" results in some cases. the rem jet kills all the light that manages to travel through the emulsion, so the image is MUCH sharper, and their is not any flare. which is why te use the rem jet on Movie film which was designed to yield prints 70 feet wide.

Cholentpot · Mar 22, 2022

MattKing said:
Nope.
Remjet keeps the light from reflecting off the back and coming back into the emulsion to expose it again. Remjet is the most effective way of doing that. Regular C-41 film uses other methods, as does 120 film, which also uses black backing paper.
With the remjet gone, and light coming at the emulsion from both sides, it takes less light to expose the emulsion - i.e. the film is more sensitive/has a higher ISO rating.
Contrast and resolution is less, of course.

Interesting.

I've been shooting the cine version with remjet of this stuff for years now. Does cinestill have a tendency to tear easier than consumer film? Cine film is far easier to rip.

pbromaghin · Mar 22, 2022

Cholentpot said:
Cine film is far easier to rip.

Really? This is interesting. One would think it would be made harder to rip because it has to slam through a cine camera at such high speed.

Cholentpot · Mar 22, 2022

pbromaghin said:
Really? This is interesting. One would think it would be made harder to rip because it has to slam through a cine camera at such high speed.

designed to tear easier so it doesn't destroy the camera mechanism. When I'm done rewinding a roll I can tear the leader off my with teeth or fingers. I can even fashion a leading foot for loading just by tearing.

AgX · Mar 22, 2022

MattKing said:
Nope.
Remjet keeps the light from reflecting off the back and coming back into the emulsion to expose it again. Remjet is the most effective way of doing that. Regular C-41 film uses other methods, as does 120 film, which also uses black backing paper.
With the remjet gone, and light coming at the emulsion from both sides, it takes less light to expose the emulsion - i.e. the film is more sensitive/has a higher ISO rating.
Contrast and resolution is less, of course.

You overlook that
-) only yellow can be added this way. Yieldin thus a colour bias.
-) sensitivity varies between layers. Yielding more colour bias
-) halation takes place. Exposure thus is not added at the right locations

Helge · Mar 22, 2022

pbromaghin said:
Really? This is interesting. One would think it would be made harder to rip because it has to slam through a cine camera at such high speed.

They want it to rip. The camera is far more expensive that film.
Estar film used in a movie camera is a big no no, since it will strip all the teeth from the gears, before the film tears.

Lachlan Young · Mar 22, 2022

{Moderator's edit: moved from now closed duplicate thread}
Cinestill appear to be running a pre-order for a new C-41 compatible stock - see here.

Unlike prior colour stocks from them, they seem to imply it to be a native C-41 stock, rather than repurposed ECN-2, though they are still rather ambiguous - specifically with the line "This new film will continue CineStill’s ongoing tradition of motion picture film emulsions made for still photographers".

The remaining question is whether it's a re-making of a previously extant stock from Kodak (as chances are high that's who's making/ coating it for Cinestill) or a derivation thereof - unless it's just a master roll of Vision 3 250D. Which would leave the question as to whether it takes off from 400UC or Gold 400 (or the VR-G 400 emulsion used for the Lomo 400). It also looks like the work might have been done to make its coating package Estar compatible, thus offering LF formats too - though Cinestill did try cutting cinema stock into sheets in the past (not terribly successfully I recall).

Helge · Mar 22, 2022

Arcadia4 said:
Essentially for the colour camera films they appear to buy a custom coating of the motion picture product off eastman kodak without the remjet layer (which makes more sense than trying to remove it later). So they are ordering master roll quants converted to their requirements and being relatively small its probably cash upfront rather than credit. So a kickstarter makes sense to help with cash flow.

Dirb9 said:
It's Vision 3 250D, with Cinestill's 'adjustment' for processing in C41 instead of ECN2, see also Vision 500T becoming 800T when sold by Cinestill. The 'Kickstarter' format in odd, perhaps a way to gauge interest before placing the order to Kodak.

What exactly does the adjustment entail? Are they really doing anything else apart from ordering film without remjet?

Helge · Mar 22, 2022

MattKing said:
The C-41 may speed it up too, but that is because C-411 films are supposed to be higher contrast than ECN films, which are designed to be printed to film, rather than paper, and therefore need to be lower contrast.
A process designed to produce higher contrast will boost true speed a little bit too.

That and cinefilm is more conservatively rated. Often a half to a whole stop less than would be the case with consumer film.

The halation is akin to flashing in effect, only not even.

If you are really perverse and dedicated, you can even wash off the anti halation and paint something reflective but non developer inhibiting on the back of the film.
Or with 120 film, use silver/tinfoil backing paper.
That will speed the film up several stops and provide a great deal of halation.
And surprisingly not be totally disastrous to resolution.

New Cinestill 400D film announced

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency