New (as of 2019) airport CT scanners

foc · May 28, 2021

I don't know if this has been asked already and it may be a stupid question but if I buy film online from another country and it is posted or sent by courier, how is it scanned for security?
Now I have recently bought film online from UK and from EU and both were courier delivered. The film I shot was ok, no signs of fogging caused by x-ray etc.

koraks · May 28, 2021

foc said:
I don't know if this has been asked already and it may be a stupid question but if I buy film online from another country and it is posted or sent by courier, how is it scanned for security?

It has been discussed, and the answer is basically "we don't know", with a frequently offered argument that "film manufacturers probably are aware of this and probably make the necessary arrangements to prevent x-ray damage from happening in transit". But the short answer remains: we just don't know for sure.

AgX · May 28, 2021

foc said:
I don't know if this has been asked already and it may be a stupid question but if I buy film online from another country and it is posted or sent by courier, how is it scanned for security?

As I said just above, practically nothing is known on the procedure and the employed apparatus.

For instance German Customs stated that they constantly X-ray samples of all imported parcels (they stated the percentage, I posted it somewhere here), but nothing much has been revealed about the used apparatus (one or two videos give a glimpse) and of course nothing on the algorithm applied to select the samples.

And of course parcels are opened even without being X-rayed before.

foc · May 28, 2021

Thank you for the replies.
So international post and courier parcel scanning is unknown.
So has anyone received film via post or courier parcel from another country/continent and had a problem with x-ray damage?

Agulliver · May 28, 2021

For security reasons, often little is revealed about the security processes regarding international mail. However, I do not believe that anyone has ever reported a credible example of photographic film being fogged when bought from abroad and shipped/posted. Whatever they do, they don't routinely perform CT scanning by x-ray.

AgX · May 28, 2021

I know of such case, film having been sent overseas from a retailer.

In this context I find it interesting that Mirko, who otherwise commented on most various aspects of production and market, never touched this topic as far as I remember.

AgX · May 28, 2021

Agulliver said:
Whatever they do, they don't routinely perform CT scanning by x-ray.

Why not? The technology seems benefitial from a controller's point of view
.

relistan · May 28, 2021

foc said:
Thank you for the replies.
So international post and courier parcel scanning is unknown.
So has anyone received film via post or courier parcel from another country/continent and had a problem with x-ray damage?

I regularly order stuff to Ireland from Fotoimpex without issue and have ordered from ORWO/Filmotec and a vendor in France as well but probably none of this comes by air. The only film I have had fogged by airport scanners was stuff bought at Freestyle and flown home to Ireland from LA with me in November 2019. I did not know enough to look out for CT scanners. For air freight it may depend on the destination and source countries whether things are scanned? My expectation is that things would be fine from the US to Ireland. I may try...

AgX · May 28, 2021

relistan said:
For air freight it may depend on the destination and source countries whether things are scanned? My expectation is that things would be fine from the US to Ireland.

A great way of smuggling then.

wiltw · May 28, 2021

Agulliver said:
For security reasons, often little is revealed about the security processes regarding international mail. However, I do not believe that anyone has ever reported a credible example of photographic film being fogged when bought from abroad and shipped/posted. Whatever they do, they don't routinely perform CT scanning by x-ray.

The process might be that a shipment by a recognized retailer is not routinely scanned, but a shipment by an individual to home is scanned routinely...the liklihood of smuggling by an individual or liklihood of terrorism by an individual is far greater than the likliihood of same smuggling/terrorism by Fotoimpex or ORWO or B&H Photo !!!
Also, it might not be alwys 100% sampling, but a randomized choice of which truck or pallet is subjected to high intensity X-ray or CT inspection...the fear is used to deter routine smuggling or terrorism.

As a tourist returning home, would I risk shipping a package full of unprocessed but exposed photographic film, placing odds against it all being ruined at the departing airport as a postal service or DHL or Fedex shipment?!

koraks · May 28, 2021

wiltw said:
the liklihood of smuggling by an individual or liklihood of terrorism by an individual is far greater than the likliihood of same smuggling/terrorism by Fotoimpex or ORWO or B&H Photo !!!

Virtually all of the major drug busts in our domestic harbors (i.e. top-3 biggest worldwide) are company shipments. Private shipments are small fry, barely interesting for law enforcement.

wiltw · May 28, 2021

koraks said:
Virtually all of the major drug busts in our domestic harbors (i.e. top-3 biggest worldwide) are company shipments. Private shipments are small fry, barely interesting for law enforcement.

Yes, cartels have lots of product to move, and the criminals hide their activity under the guise of faux businesses. I still feel that stuff shipped by by Fotoimpex or ORWO or B&H Photo are far less likely to get inspected than stuff from any business in Mexico or Columbia or Afganistan.. When it fits the right profile, it gets scanned.

DMJ · May 28, 2021

This is very discouraging for analog photographers, I'm flying in August from LAX to Argentina and am really thinking on only bringing a DSLR with me. I would never ask a TSA agent in LA for manual inspection of film.

relistan · May 28, 2021

AgX said:
A great way of smuggling then.

Yep, this happens a lot.

wiltw · May 28, 2021

DMJ said:
This is very discouraging for analog photographers, I'm flying in August from LAX to Argentina and am really thinking on only bringing a DSLR with me. I would never ask a TSA agent in LA for manual inspection of film.

It was reported back in August 2020, that this was among the airports already using the new CT machines at Security for carry-on luggage.

Los Angeles International Airport (LAX)

And it was reported in April 2019, that

"Security specialist Smiths Detection has received an order to supply and install its HI-SCAN XCT 10080 high-speed explosives detection systems (EDS) at Ezeiza International Airport in Buenos Aires, Argentina."

The proverbial snowball's chance in Hell film would not be subjected to CT at Security at both ends of your trip!

BrianShaw · May 28, 2021

DMJ said:
I would never ask a TSA agent in LA for manual inspection of film.

I haven’t flown for a couple of years but before that was at LAX about 30 or more times per year. I wouldn’t hesitate to ask. They tend to be very accommodating in my experience. Every now and again there was a lazy one in a bad mood but that was rare.

If you want to be extra sure then the digital approach, indeed, might be best. Good pictures are good pictures!

BrianShaw · May 28, 2021

wiltw said:
HI-SCAN XCT 10080 high-speed explosives detection systems (EDS)

Isn’t that system for hold baggage? I thought so but could be mistaken. Hold baggage has always had a high probability of CT exposure. I thought the Smith equipment was to replace old CTX, or as an alternate source. I’ve been away from that business for quite a while so maybe my sideline watching of the industry is outdated or faulty.

wiltw · May 28, 2021

BrianShaw said:
Isn’t that system for hold baggage? I thought so but could be mistaken. Hold baggage has always had a high probability of CT exposure. I thought the Smith equipment was to replace old CTX, or as an alternate source. I’ve been away from that business for quite a while so maybe my sideline watching of the industry is outdated or faulty.

You are right, that unit is for checked luggage, but for security purposes few airports or national air security agencies are announcing the installation scheduleds for the new CT scanners at Security! Trying to keep terrorists and smuggles on their toes, by not announcing everything!

DMJ · May 28, 2021

wiltw said:
It was reported back in August 2020, that this was among the airports already using the new CT machines at Security for carry-on luggage.

Los Angeles International Airport (LAX)

And it was reported in April 2019, that

"Security specialist Smiths Detection has received an order to supply and install its HI-SCAN XCT 10080 high-speed explosives detection systems (EDS) at Ezeiza International Airport in Buenos Aires, Argentina."

The proverbial snowball's chance in Hell film would not be subjected to CT at Security at both ends of your trip!

LOL! I just asked my friend who works at EZE but now I know ! BTW, I flew in August 2019 from LAX with rolls of HP5 and had no problem whatsoever.

DMJ · May 28, 2021

BrianShaw said:
I haven’t flown for a couple of years but before that was at LAX about 30 or more times per year. I wouldn’t hesitate to ask. They tend to be very accommodating in my experience. Every now and again there was a lazy one in a bad mood but that was rare.

If you want to be extra sure then the digital approach, indeed, might be best. Good pictures are good pictures!

Ok, Do you ask the person directing the line as soon as you enter the area or the one behind the scanner ?

I could buy film at destination and bring a Patterson tank with me but a roll of Tri-X costs $14!!!

wiltw · May 28, 2021

DMJ said:
Ok, Do you ask the person directing the line as soon as you enter the area or the one behind the scanner ?

I could buy film at destination and bring a Patterson tank with me but a roll of Tri-X costs $14!!!

The person at the console of the scanner is too busy looking at their monitor...talk to anyone else working that inspection line!

Even if you broght Tri-X and a tank, what about a thermometer and developer, stop bath, and fixer?
Or if in a foreign country, how do you ask for a place that has those things, and talk to the shop owner, assuminbg you could get there?

DMJ · May 28, 2021

wiltw said:
Even if you broght Tri-X and a tank, what about a thermometer and developer, stop bath, and fixer?
Or if in a foreign country, how do you ask for a place that has those things, and talk to the shop owner, assuminbg you could get there?

Your comment sounded a little bit ethnocentrist to me; I hope I'm wrong.

How do I ask? I speak four languages including Spanish. But do you think foreign countries don't have thermometers or Vitamin C or Coffee ? It should be easy to get at any supermarket. Water for stop bath ? It might be tricky to get Sodium Thiosulfate though, but with the increasing popularity of film use, it should be easy to get photographic supplies at least in mosts countries in the Americas and Europe.

Now, it could be a good idea to start a thread where we can point to places in different countries where one can get photographic supplies. I follow many on IG.

BrianShaw · May 28, 2021

DMJ said:
Ok, Do you ask the person directing the line as soon as you enter the area or the one behind the scanner

Yes. There is always a TSA telling people how to load the bins, take off belt, remove keys, etc. that is the person to inform and request.

wiltw · May 28, 2021

DMJ said:
Your comment sounded a little bit ethnocentrist to me; I hope I'm wrong.

How do I ask? I speak four languages including Spanish. But do you think foreign countries don't have thermometers or Vitamin C or Coffee ? It should be easy to get at any supermarket. Water for stop bath ? It might be tricky to get Sodium Thiosulfate though, but with the increasing popularity of film use, it should be easy to get photographic supplies at least in mosts countries in the Americas and Europe.

Now, it could be a good idea to start a thread where we can point to places in different countries where one can get photographic supplies. I follow many on IG.

No 'ethnocentricity' here. Merely the understanding that not everyone in other countries speaks English, or would understand 'darkroom supplies' or 'darkroom thermometer'. Especially when not in a major city with high tourist visitor volume. I have, over the decades, travelled to more than 30 countries on business or personal leisure travel. So I have plenty of experience in trying to find items in coutries in which I was located. And although I can order from menus in 7 languages, I do not profess to have the capacity to ask for darkroom supplies. Most Americans can scarcely speak English correctly even though they were born in US; a second language? They no longer mandate a second language even in college/university for 50 years now; my university dropped the requirement in my junior year!

DMJ · May 29, 2021

wiltw said:
No 'ethnocentricity' here. Merely the understanding that not everyone in other countries speaks English, or would understand 'darkroom supplies' or 'darkroom thermometer'. Especially when not in a major city with high tourist visitor volume. I have, over the decades, travelled to more than 30 countries on business or personal leisure travel. So I have plenty of experience in trying to find items in coutries in which I was located. And although I can order from menus in 7 languages, I do not profess to have the capacity to ask for darkroom supplies. Most Americans can scarcely speak English correctly even though they were born in US; a second language? They no longer mandate a second language even in college/university for 50 years now; my university dropped the requirement in my junior year!

I agree. But don't just think the quality of education has been decreasing here only. When I lived in Germany about 7 years ago, the teachers and professors I met there were complaining about the government lowering the standards in academia to be more like the "american" system of education. I have a Phd in the humanities and it was required for me to learn another language here in the US, but education has changed a lot over the last 20 years. For example the California State University has changed curriculum to better accommodate students from community colleges; not to speak about the acceptance of foreign students who don't speak english...all for the money.

I am hesitant to speak to the TSA guys in LA because I've been having bad experiences lately, it must be because I have a metal plate with 6 screws in my radius !

New (as of 2019) airport CT scanners

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New (as of 2019) airport CT scanners

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