New (as of 2019) airport CT scanners

wiltw · Apr 17, 2021

Ai Print said:
One idea the main service manager at DHL suggested to me is to make this an ATA Carnet shipment. This is commonly used by the performing arts, motion picture and film and commercial photography industries when moving expensive equipment abroad. It basically pre-declares in great detail that the merchandise being imported is temporary and not to be sold to, rented or used by another party.

I honestly had never heard of this before so maybe it will be the way I ship abroad.

The carnet is an international customs and temporary export-import document. It is used to clear customs in 87 countries and territories without paying duties and import taxes on merchandise that will be re-exported within 12 months. In the past I have carried medical equipment under carnet, for use by a doctor at an international location on a trial basis, before returning it to the country of origin, without the need of paying customs fees. I do not know that it would be exempt from security inspection; when I travelled with such an item, it would go thru the usual carryon inspection machines, including inspection when it aroused the curiosity of someone viewing it on X-ray...A funny story, when one person saw the device and said to the other agent, "Oh...I had one of those once!" and I was immediately let thru withiout fiurther delay.

Separate purview: Immigration vs. Customs vs. Security

BrianShaw · Apr 17, 2021

Short of a diplomatic pouch I doubt there is a way to avoid baggage inspections.

Arthurwg · Apr 17, 2021

ITD said:
It’s my local - I didn’t find security at Gatwick to be any more obliging either.

OK, but how about the crowds? Very unpleasant IMHO. But I mostly go to CDG.

AgX · Apr 17, 2021

wiltw said:
The carnet is an international customs and temporary export-import document. It is used to clear customs in 87 countries and territories without paying duties and import taxes on merchandise that will be re-exported within 12 months. In the past I have carried medical equipment under carnet, for use by a doctor at an international location on a trial basis, before returning it to the country of origin, without the need of paying customs fees.

This procedure is still advised by german custom authority even for amateurs with their cameras going on travel outside the EU.
In my collection I even got a camera with custom seal fram an european customs authority.

wiltw · Apr 17, 2021

BrianShaw said:
Short of a diplomatic pouch I doubt there is a way to avoid baggage inspections.

Which is why I had suggested looking into an international bonded courier. One such company's web site shows:

"Film and Production
Giving filmmakers an agile global logistics partner that knows the importance of being on time and the intricacies of transporting everything from scripts to high-end equipment."

Perhaps such a courier can somehow get a bypass on usual security inspections. Worth a call to find out!

AgX · Apr 17, 2021

wiltw said:
Separate purview: Immigration vs. Customs vs. Security

A important point I in vain tried to hint at above.
Security checks at check-ins at airports or at museums are intended to detect items being a security risk. Items looked for at customs checks are those being of interest for fiscal reasons or for being banned from import. This difference may affect detection procedures.

BrianShaw · Apr 17, 2021

AgX said:
A important point I in vain tried to hint at above.
Security checks at check-ins at airports or at museums are intended to detect items being a security risk. Items looked for at customs checks are those being of interest for fiscal reasons or for being banned from import. This difference may affect detection procedures.

... and then there is agricultural inspection. They use X-ray machines too. Looking for bad microbes I suppose. LOL

wiltw · Apr 17, 2021

BrianShaw said:
... and then there is agricultural inspection. They use X-ray machines too. Looking for bad microbes I suppose. LOL

CA is somewhat unique in having that...cannot risk pests that ruin crops. CA grows too much of the country's produce, about 13% of total US, and is 2/3 of the nation's fruits and nuts (no comment about its inhabitants) and is the sole producer of about a dozen crops.

Ai Print · Apr 17, 2021

wiltw said:
Which is why I had suggested looking into an international bonded courier. One such company's web site shows:

"Film and Production
Giving filmmakers an agile global logistics partner that knows the importance of being on time and the intricacies of transporting everything from scripts to high-end equipment."

Perhaps such a courier can somehow get a bypass on usual security inspections. Worth a call to find out!

Indeed, at this point this is what I am looking for.

Surely big budget international commercial photography jobs that were using film at the time would not even consider trying to push commercial levels of film through an airport terminal without a level of pre-determined assurances.

One good piece of advice I got from Thomas Mooney at Kodak a few days ago was to send smaller shipments of my exposed film home more often.

I’m truly open at this point, I still have time to get this right.

fs999 · Apr 19, 2021

AgX said:
You mean EU-country, not european-country.

Yes.

Ai Print · Apr 24, 2021

Honestly, I am so worn out by researching this and getting nearly nowhere that I am ready to give up on film for travel work...and I *never* give up.

I have worked on this daily for 2-6 hours per day for the past two weeks and let me tell you, it is maddening and draining. I am both disgusted and crestfallen at the idea that I could only do this work using digital. Sure, I have all that gear umpteen times over but for this kind of work, the kind of look I want and the prints I want to make, it just sucks the life out of the whole idea of it to even consider using anything but film.

I think think film is truly dead for overseas travel.

AgX · Apr 24, 2021

Send over film in seperate batches, maybe over differnt routes, make surplus exposures, and do the same for returning film.
I assume this is the best advice in a insecure situation.

Helge · Apr 24, 2021

Have you considered contacting this guy to see if he can help:
Fotobúðin
https://foto.fo/

Would it be impossible to do development yourself?
I’ve done B&W development in a hotel room and it was pretty straight forward.
You just need to time the drying time with room service.
C41 and E6 would be a different matter though I’d imagine but still doable with planning and a enough time.

Ai Print · Apr 24, 2021

Helge said:
Have you considered contacting this guy to see if he can help:
Fotobúðin
https://foto.fo/

Would it be impossible to do development yourself?
I’ve done B&W development in a hotel room and it was pretty straight forward.
You just need to time the drying time with room service.
C41 and E6 would be a different matter though I’d imagine but still doable with planning and a enough time.

I can't get google translate to translate all of that, is he in Faroe or Iceland? By the phone number he looks to be in the Faroe Islands. Honestly it is just too much film to do onsite, I would have to stay an extra month just to develop it all.

I will email him and see what he can offer.

AgX · Apr 24, 2021

Processing on location will only solve half of the issue or reduce the risk by 1/2.

Ai Print · Apr 24, 2021

AgX said:
Processing on location will only solve half of the issue or reduce the risk by 1/2.

Yep, that is why I think that aside from using a very expensive combo of Fedex / DHL with an ATA Carnet service ($1500US+ all in?), shooting film abroad is a thing of the past.

MattKing · Apr 24, 2021

Do you have any connections within the portion of the movie industry that still shoots film? They must be dealing with this.

BrianShaw · Apr 24, 2021

MattKing said:
Do you have any connections within the portion of the movie industry that still shoots film? They must be dealing with this.

Just guessing... but positively using charter flights????

Ai Print · Apr 24, 2021

MattKing said:
Do you have any connections within the portion of the movie industry that still shoots film? They must be dealing with this.

Yes but they have budgets that greatly outstrip mine. It's not uncommon for them to move a million dollars worth of film and motion picture equipment about and have no qualms about paying tens of thousands in carnet fees to do so. I am coming up empty handed in finding one that can assist me without paying a very high minimum cost.

wiltw · Apr 24, 2021

Ai Print said:
I think think film is truly dead for overseas travel.

But in not too much time, most major US airport will be using the new CT scanners, as of Aug 2020 they were in about 19 or the top 40 airoports in the US.
These new system improve upon security inspectiion times to reduce passenger delays at Security and to better detect materials of use to terrorist activities The new machines have sophisticated algorithms for the detection of explosives, and by creating a 3-D image that can be viewed and rotated on three axes for thorough visual image analysis by a TSA officer. If a bag requires further screening, TSA officers will inspect it to ensure that a threat item is not contained inside.

Ai Print · Apr 24, 2021

wiltw said:
But in not too much time, most major US airport will be using the new CT scanners, as of Aug 2020 they were in about 19 or the top 40 airoports in the US.
These new system improve upon security inspectiion times to reduce passenger delays at Security and to better detect materials of use to terrorist activities The new machines have sophisticated algorithms for the detection of explosives by creating a 3-D image that can be viewed and rotated on three axes for thorough visual image analysis by a TSA officer. If a bag requires further screening, TSA officers will inspect it to ensure that a threat item is not contained inside.

For sure, but I only drive with film within the U.S. so that problem is somewhat solved for me personally.

BrianShaw · Apr 24, 2021

wiltw said:
These new system improve upon security inspectiion times to reduce passenger delays at Security and to better detect materials of use to terrorist activities

They really are very effective from that perspective. I vaguely recall estimates of a 4x efficiency. Too bad for our beloved film, though... not a concern to many except us.

pentaxuser · Apr 24, 2021

This will sound like an "I told you so" but what is happening surely became clear at least months ago when it did not take much "reading between the lines" to work out that what Kodak and Ilford was saying( Fuji said nothing) was that there was nothing they could or perhaps were prepared to do about it.

Perhaps both of them and the market they control is just too small to expect their " vested interest" in film promotion to outweigh the benefits of the new scanners and they realise this.

I agree that taking film on holidays by air will soon be a thing of the past unless the user is prepared to expend the time, energy and cost to do so. This looks to be too big an "ask" for nearly all of us

pentaxuser

ITD · Apr 24, 2021

pentaxuser said:
Perhaps both of them and the market they control is just too small to expect their " vested interest" in film promotion to outweigh the benefits of the new scanners and they realise this.
pentaxuser

That’s just the point - back when everyone needed film to take their holiday pics the airports would take notice but that’s now gone. My concern is whether enough of the film market depends on air travel enough for these scanners to make it unviable to continue manufacturing at all.

pentaxuser · Apr 24, 2021

ITD said:
That’s just the point - back when everyone needed film to take their holiday pics the airports would take notice but that’s now gone. My concern is whether enough of the film market depends on air travel enough for these scanners to make it unviable to continue manufacturing at all.

Well I think that back in the day when everyone needed film to take their holiday pics a lot of airports outside of the U.S. did not in fact take notice of our needs but it didn't matter by and large as the scanners for hand luggage were OK for film but we live in a different world now and on balance there may be good reason why the new scanners had to be brought in. The real solution, if my "good reason about the new scanners" is accepted, is to institute hand inspection but that will only happen if the pressure by film companies is enough and it isn't

I doubt if the few film users who will not use digital, if necessary, are in anything like large enough numbers to be able to bring any weight on the law-making authorities.

Do I believe this puts film manufacture in jeopardy? No I do not. If this were the case then, weak as they are, the film makers would be trying harder. A company that thinks that is going out of business due to a change that it cannot control becomes rather like the man who,has nothing to lose - very dangerous - but I see nothing that indicates to me that the film makers see any likelihood that this is about to happen

They do not believe that they are the equivalent of gas mantle producers in the face of the new invention of the electric light bulb and I happen to think they are right

pentaxuser

New (as of 2019) airport CT scanners

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