New (as of 2019) airport CT scanners

Henning Serger said:

Please read my post again!
I have written rejection of hand inspection when the new CT scanners are in use.

Of course there have been rejections in the past: At airports with the film-safe X-ray machines. Because there hand-inspection is not necessary and additional work for the staff.

Best regards,
Henning

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Amsterdam Schipol has new CT scanners and they haven’t even remotely entertained requests for hand inspections last couple times I’ve been through. For that matter, they wouldn’t even let me take my film out of my bag. There was film damage each time with new scanners, unlike the old, so have been avoiding that airport recently.

Witold said:

Perhaps you should read mine too, there is no regulation for hand inspection, we can hope it will come, but I seriously doubt that.

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I have read yours. Your personal doubts are irrelevant.
Only facts are relevant. That what is really happening at the airports.

Best regards,
Henning

skysh4rk said:

Amsterdam Schipol has new CT scanners and they haven’t even remotely entertained requests for hand inspections last couple times I’ve been through. For that matter, they wouldn’t even let me take my film out of my bag. There was film damage each time with new scanners, unlike the old, so have been avoiding that airport recently.

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O.k.
Thanks for the report. Then that is a case as a customer to talk to the airport:
- complain about the practice
- refer to the airports which offer hand inspection
- tell them you avoid their airport as long as they don't offer hand inspection.

Best regards,
Henning

Henning Serger said:

Only facts are relevant. That what is really happening at the airports.

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Oh, you must mean what was posted in the one immediately preceding yours, #301

wiltw said:

Yes, over many decades of travel through London Heathrow, I have discovered that NONE of the agents speak English, or they hire only the DEAF...that conclusion comes from always being ignored whenever I have verbal communication with them.

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I always try to avoid Heathrow at all costs anyway. Worst airport in the world.

pentaxuser said:

can you say what the difference is in scanning air cargo and why this cannot be applied to passenger flights.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_scanning

...purely a guess on my part, that some of the reason this could not work in airport passenger security environment is the relatively slow throughput of these alternatives.

wiltw said:

Folks, posts #1 , #6 and #33 of this thread ALL have links to articles WITH PHOTOS of the new CT scanners

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I saw the helpful photos. I just didn’t know it was a comprehensive catalogue of all CT scanners in use.

Henning Serger said:

No, not only photrio. Other reliable sources.

Henning

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Can you say what these other reliable sources are?

Thanks

pentaxuser

Henning Serger said:

No, not only photrio. Other reliable sources.

Just remember when the new investor Pemberstone invested in Harman technology / Ilford Photo in 2015. So many of the doom-and-gloom preachers predicted their death. It was one of the most disgusting threads in apugs/photrios history (you find it in the Ilford subforum). So much bullshit from people with no knowledge about the topic. Some people should be really ashamed about what they have written at that time.
Much to much of this "committing suicide because of fear of the death" here over all the years on photrio.


Best regards,
Henning

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Henning , this has certainly prompted my interest in what was said about the Pemberstone investment in 2015 Can you or anyone else for that matter give me directions to the Ilford subforum . I confess that my ability to navigate Photrio remains poor

Thanks
pentaxuser

Henning Serger said:

I have read yours. Your personal doubts are irrelevant.
Only facts are relevant. That what is really happening at the airports.

Best regards,
Henning

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I don't know, are you offended by your own lack of coherent follow through? Until a (impossible to imagine) regulation forces all security pesonnel to hand check when so requested, it will remian a rulette, and as all who have survived the game will tell you, they don't know if they'll be able to face that gun again after next game.

People, please give Henning a break. he is trying to fight the good fight and stay positive, like I try. I am sorry for my question, as i didnt mean to flame this thread again. Im just trying to be cautious and not have my film ruined.

its sad what a few crazy religious zealots can force this world to do. lets all relax, have a nice glass of wine, shoot some more film and get along. after all, its just film.

john

Vienna airport terminal 1: regular non-CT xray scanners. Asked for hand inspection anyway, handed my bag of film to the operator. Passed onto supervisor who explained that only 1600 and upwards qualified for hand inspection and that the machine would give no problems with my film (which I know and agree/experienced many times). Still he did a brief hand inspection as I was at his station anyway. Again very kind people, and they evidently were aware of film and how to deal with it in an xray environment.

pentaxuser said:

Henning , this has certainly prompted my interest in what was said about the Pemberstone investment in 2015 Can you or anyone else for that matter give me directions to the Ilford subforum . I confess that my ability to navigate Photrio remains poor
Thanks
pentaxuser

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https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...cent-sale-to-pemberstone-ventures-ltd.128184/

Best regards,
Henning

destroya said:

People, please give Henning a break. he is trying to fight the good fight and stay positive, like I try. I am sorry for my question, as i didnt mean to flame this thread again. Im just trying to be cautious and not have my film ruined.

its sad what a few crazy religious zealots can force this world to do. lets all relax, have a nice glass of wine, shoot some more film and get along. after all, its just film.

john

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Thanks John. Time to calm down, indeed.
We really should be aware of the fact that our discussions here on photrio will not change anything to the best.
The time is much, much better invested in adressing the relevant authorities:
1) It is better to talk to the airports we are using: Telling them that film users are a relevant customer group for them. Currently more than 60 million photographers are (also) using film. You may be surprised by the high number. Well, Fujifilm alone assess the market of their instax user base now above 50 million.
And the number of film photographers is increasing.
And airports are in a certian competition. They want passengers / customers.
2) Talk to your airline(s) as their customer. They can talk / make pressure on the airports.
3) Talk to your members of Parliament.
4) Talk to the film manufacturers: They are all sitting in the same boat. All of them have the interest that their customers can fly with films without problems. Therefore a cooperation between all of them would be beneficial for all of them. They all united in that topic have most power and influence.

Best regards,
Henning

I have to say, I do come down on the side of "don't panic".

I've only been on APUG/Photrio about 5 years but I've already seen multiple threads posted about predicted doom regarding airports and X-rays. A lot of people who don't travel frequently with film worried even before these new machines. Personally my belief is that if you approach any airport security with the attitude that you're doomed, they pick up on that and probably won't cede to your request for film inspection by hand. Having said that, Schipol airport has for some time been known as somewhere with particularly unpleasant security bods. I've only been through Schipol once, I was fine but my wife was impatient (as she often is) and therefore not only got selected for an extra inspection but was given a talking to by the security staff - something I nor she has ever seen anywhere else in well over 300 commercial flights between us.

AS for LHR being the worst airport, you've clearly never flown to CVG....but "my airport is better than yours" won't help either. The security people have a task to perform, which is to get people and their hand baggage *quickly* through the system while ensuring every item taken on board is at least scanned. *quickly* is important because if everyone started requesting hand inspections it would take more time....passengers would be delayed and everyone would be that little bit more on edge. Security staff don't want to chat, they want to get you through their station ASAP while doing their job. Book expedited security if you are able at your airport, arrive early, be polite. The amount of camera gear I take through cabin baggage inspection often arouses suspicion (specifically outside the UK) but when I am asked to take out the cameras and show them to the security bods, I simply do so. My wife says things like "He has 8 cameras, are you sure you want that?"....and they glare at her, sometimes choosing her for extra checks because of her attitude (just a few days ago they decided to pull her aside and swab her for explosives at FNC)...I just get on with it and usually they simply stop me part way through and wave me on. In my experience attitude is everything. i don't know how many flights I've taken, I used to keep count but lost my spreadsheet in a HDD crash a few years ago. I was on 126 flights at that point. I know others fly much more, my dad made at least 10 flights a year for 30 years or more, always took a camera and film even though he was on business...never had any issues...also had the same attitude as me and never had problems with security, including flying "behind the iron curtain" in the late 70s and to China in the early 80s.

Be nice. it genuinely helps.

As Henning says, what we can do is keep updated on airports installing the new CT scanners. We can help the upkeep of a list of such airports here on Photrio. We can also write to or phone airports and ask them if they're aware their new scanners damage film and if hand inspection is possible. The more people who write to airports asking about the new scanners and hand inspection of film, the more the airports will realise there's an issue....and maybe they'll tell the security staff to expect occasional hand inspection requests. Maybe not....but ranting about it here won't actually help.

For their part, Kodak and Ilford seem to be doing some proper tests and Kodak have those labels you can stick to your luggage.

Thanks for the link, Henning. I had not realised that "all things Ilford" in terms of threads are contained in that forum. I now know where to look. The thread superseded an earlier thread which might have had much more unwarranted "gloom and doom" posts but it seemed to me in the 15 pages I read there were very few posts that were outright doom and gloom or anti the change of owners at Ilford in 2015.

From your post I had expected there to be a great number of posts from a great many posters predicting "the end" or suggesting Pemberstone's motives were aimed at making matters worse.

Yes there is a spectrum of optimism and pessimism but that's to be expected on any forums. I see very little evidence that anyone here expects Photrio to change the installation of scanners or the rules as they exist on hand inspection but discussing a matter, any matter, connected with the film world which includes negative effects on members such as price or damage as is the case with the new scanners is not the equivalent of deliberately damaging film's future

pentaxuser

Question: Do these high powered X-rays have any effect on developed film? I assume no, but I'm no expert. I'm thinking that getting your film processed in the city you are visiting may be the safest way to go.

Hatchetman said:

Do these high powered X-rays have any effect on developed film?

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No. Developed film is safe in any case with all equipment used at airports.

Agulliver said:

Be nice. it genuinely helps.

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I do not share that view. There are just some guys who are nasty all throughout (No idea why). As dutch military police. I experienced them for several years as I was passing the dutch border several times a week. They acted illegal by order, and always were nasty and rude. On a "Good-day" they replied "Shut up your face". On politely rejecting their illegal orders I was detained.

AgX said:

I do not share that view. There are just some guys who are nasty all throughout (No idea why). As dutch military police. I experienced them for several years as I was passing the dutch border several times a week. They acted illegal by order, and always were nasty and rude. On a "Good-day" they replied "Shut up your face". On politely rejecting their illegal orders I was detained.

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my experience is places like that would be a lot worse if you aren’t nice. So, no, some places may not reciprocate politeness or niceness, but that doesn’t mean that rudeness, complaints, or meanness are going to help.

I suspect most people will be like me. I’ll give it a go up until I get refused a hand check and my film gets damaged.... and then I’ll be eyeing up a X100 or XPro.

Ste_S said:

I suspect most people will be like me. I’ll give it a go up until I get refused a hand check and my film gets damaged.... and then I’ll be eyeing up a X100 or XPro.

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Yep, I'll give it a chance and if any film gets damaged I'll shoot with my phone while traveling.

STL Lambert, no problem with asking for hand check; flying at non-peak time (14:45) also helps

I flew out of Vancouver, Canada (YVR) yesterday, on a flight to the US. Used the NEXUS/Global Entry line, which has relaxed screening similar to US PreCheck. Asked for a hand inspection of my camera and film. They hand-inspected the film but said the camera had to go through the X-ray. The camera is loaded with FP4 so I'm not to worried about fogging - I suppose I could have asked to remove the film first, but I didn't bother.

This year, I've been through security at LAX, Burbank (BUR) and Chicago (ORD) and all have agreed to hand-inspect my cameras and film. Got into a nice conversation with one guy about film availability.

BTW I agree wholeheartedly with the suggestion to be nice. I don't agree with TSA procedures (it's security theater) but the agents don't set the policy. I'm not subservient and I'm not overly sappy, just a regular nice guy, and things always go well.

At YVR, were you shooting 35mm or 120? I see 120 being problematic because its sealed in those little bags instead of a clear container. Or did you remove the film from the bags?