New Agfa 400 speed film? Also: ORWO NPC 200, OptiColour 200

Disconnekt

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Optikoldschool had posted on their IG that a preproduction run of Opticolor 200 in 35mm & 120 is now on sale on their site (9.90€/$12usd) and is "limited quantity" until the final release in August/September of this year.

Search: 3 results found for "opticolor"

Professional film lab and makers of photo tools. The best place for analogue photographers.
www.optik-oldschool.com
 

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brbo

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Thanks!

Ordered a couple of 35mm rolls... can't wait to try it out. Shipping was curiously low (I'm not from Germany), I hope they don't cancel my order.

I think they said that the preproduction run doesn't have the anti-halation layer, I hope it won't be too bad since I'm certainly no fan of halation.
 

albireo

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Thank you from me as well. Just got 2 35mm and 2 120 rolls.

I will develop these in the Adox C41 kit.

I am really curious.
 

dokko

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the blog post linked before has a lot of details and is pleasantly honest:

OptiColour 200 | A New Colour Film

This new film features natural colours, good contrast, great greens and reds and awesome skin tones!
www.optik-oldschool.com
I really like how they disclose the underling film and discuss their coating problems.


there's also another new film coming up:
Kono Color 200

KONO Color 200 photo film - made in Germany — KONO Manufaktur®

This brand-new color emulsion—developed by our long-standing partner in Germany—is spooled and packaged at the KONO Manufaktur using our own self-designed, self-built machinery.
konomanufaktur.com
not as much details, but from the description and timing it seems to me that it could well be the same emulsion.
 

brbo

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It would be odd if this wasn't the same film. It even shows halation in some shots which should point towards sample shots being taken on that same preproduction batch that Optic OldSchool is using. No 120 as far as I can see, but they have 100' bulk rolls (you are not saving much that way, though).
 

albireo

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First 35mm roll already in camera. Hope this is as good as the first images popping up online are suggesting!
 

albireo

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koraks said:
Yup, the film creates color images. Successful review.
Click to expand...

For some, better colour images, or colour images that are easier to invert than, their other product (Wolfen NC500) or Phoenix 200.

Interesting for many people looking for an alternative to the Gold/Colorplus etc.
 
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MattKing

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Where is "Shirley" when the world needs her ....?
 

pentaxuser

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MattKing said:
Where is "Shirley" when the world needs her ....?
Click to expand...

Maybe those who are now "awoken " to the 2020s would say she represented a 1950s type of beauty and attitude to a very limited set of attributes thought to be possessed by the female of our species and was part of a 1950s hobby so is now thankfully dead and buried, Matt?

pentaxuser
 

mshchem

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Good ol Shirley. I have a Kodak Color Dataguide from the 70's that includes an Ektacolor-S C-22 negative of Shirley, she's wearing pearls and a fur. I got out a gray card a couple days ago, going to shoot a Shirley, may be a Fred if I can't find a Shirley
 

mshchem

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I'm pretty loyal to Kodak for color negative film. In fact that's all I've used for decades. I still am shooting up Fuji E-6 film, but will be going to Ektachrome, it's great film.

I love how the reviews of these weird films show nothing but scans. When I shoot color negative films it's in the hope of making an optical print.

Show me this!
 

MattKing

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Nah - just update the person and things used as a subject.
The Colour Checkers do some of that.
But a few people, with a variety of different skin types, are much more useful!
As long as they are around to be used as a "standard".
The later versions of the Kodak Shirleys added the choice of multiple skin types.
 

koraks

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Not too long ago, I printed a 'Shirley' (although that was almost definitely not her real name) from a LiCi ColorStar calibration negative for a friend of mine. An optical print from a Kodak Gold negative from the 1980s or so. The print was OK...but I wouldn't recommend using that negative for calibration anymore, haha!
 

albireo

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Out of curiosity, one question I had is why is Orwo outsourcing the packaging and distribution of NC200? Why to multiple brands even? Is it because they have no internal capabilities for this? Their NC500 is sold directly, under the 'Orwo' brand.

That's a real shame, I think, as this looks like a cracking good film, possibly more 'mature' than Phoenix, but having it packaged and sold under different names confuses people, like the dude up here placing it in the 'strange film' bin.
 

brbo

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I shot my first roll of Opticolour 200 about 10 day ago, but was reluctant to post my thoughts on this film.

My hope was that this film was a reinvention of the great late Color Mission 200, especially since the Old School blog on Opticolour 200 had shots that had a bit of that same vibe. Sadly it wasn't to be (for me)...

After processing the film I normally always scan the uncut roll on Noritsu scanner or cut the roll and put it in a clear negative sleeve to scan it as a contact sheet on a drum scanner. Noritsu scanner struggled with my preferred settings that usually work perfectly fine with 90% of films (exception being cine film whether processed in ECN-2 or C-41). That wasn't a good sign. I messed around with settings and only got okay(ish) scans when I applied heavy red and blue slope bias (think of it as a crossover correction). Not a good sign.



A quick drum scan wasn't too hot either.



By that time I knew that RA-4 print would probably be a mess. Trying to get rid of the magenta shadows just pushed the rest into a sickly blend of yellow-green-mud or whatever... I can live with colder blue cast in shadows on a clear sky day, but not magenta...



I thought that my processing must've been off (unfortunately, the roll that was processed together with Opticolour 200 film can't serve as a reference point as it turned out to be a blank roll of heavily expired film), but I've now seen more scans from other users that don't really seem to be getting nice pure hues from this film.

I hope to be able to shoot and process another roll side-by-side with Portra 160 this week to eliminate the potential problem with processing. As it is now, I still prefer Lomography Color '92 which was introduced two years ago. For me, it's closer to a proper colour negative film. Opticolour 200 does have finer grain than '92, but it's also slower so this it to be expected. To be honest, I expected a big step forward with Orwo/Opticolour 200.

I can get okay scans from Opticolour 200, but I can get okay scans from other "funny" films like Orwo NC500 or Lomography '92, too...

Anyway, here are some scans made with various scanners for comparison and a demonstration that if you only scan, you can make this film as punchy as you want, but if your goal is a wet print, this might not be your go-to film.

Noritsu LS-600:


Minolta 5400:



Microtek 120tf:

 

albireo

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Thanks Brbo

I've finished my first roll in 120 and it's hanging to dry. One thing I can see straight away from my roll is that the supposedly "orange" mask is not really orange but a darker hue of red somehow. Maybe this is having an impact on what you're seeing.

My approach will be to invert manually to try to defeat the funny base. Perhaps the usual Vuescan "lock film base"/lock colour.

I think some of your scans are really nice, though the youtuber mentioned above is getting pretty different results, which match some of the stuff I've seen on Instagram/Flickr. The youtuber Is scanning with a Frontier, would this make a difference? Also what chemistry are you using, and was it fresh?

I will report back with my findings.
 
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koraks

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brbo said:
I shot my first roll of Opticolour 200 about 10 day ago, but was reluctant to post my thoughts on this film.
Click to expand...

But thank you for doing so anyway; I was looking forward to it. I had a look at the one scan you uploaded earlier and it sort of looked OK, but the RA4 prints tell a different story.
If I were to guess I'd say they've managed to get the masking, at least to an extent, but anti-halation and esp. hue-purity enhancing DIR coupling tech does not seem to be part of the package yet. Your scans are probably more than good enough for what most of the market wants, though.
 

brbo

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@albireo

All the above scans were inverted manually (except the Noritsu ones). I does seem that Frontier does a better job with this film, but I generally almost always prefer Frontier to Noritsu scans, so there’s no surprise…

Yes, the mask is on the red side, very similar to that of Lomo ‘92. From top to bottom Lomo '92, Opticolour 200, Fuji/Gold 200:



Chemistry was not fresh, although I’ve never had a problem before with it. I mix 5L of developer, store it in smaller bottles with no air and then use it one-shot. The roll of Gold 200 I developed prior to Opticolour 200 turned out OK and also printed just fine (this being my “QC” since I never verified my development process with control strips).

This is from that Fuji/Gold 200 roll (quick comparison between FujiFlex (top) vs. Maxima (bottom) paper; if anybody cares - filtration and time same for both, somewhat down the middle between the two):

 
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koraks

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brbo said:
quick comparison between FujiFlex (top) vs. Maxima (bottom) paper; if anybody cares
Click to expand...

Oh, I certainly do!
Look at how nice & white the Flex base is. The Maxima base (as with all Fuji papers) is only white in UV-rich daylight. It's kind of muddy in artificial light. Also interesting to see that especially the green/magenta balance is slightly different on both materials while the other two color channels seem more closely matched.
Overall it's pretty remarkable that these materials perform quite similarly given that they're produced in different places, on different infrastructure and by different people, who moreover rarely (if ever) directly talk to each other.
 

Lachlan Young

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brbo said:
, the mask is on the red side, very similar to that of Lomo ‘92.
Click to expand...

It looks close enough that any difference could simply be batch variance. Which is disappointing as the marketing gave the implication that it was more like a properly masked film than one en-route. It also suggests that the choice given by Orwo was effectively either a variant of NC500 or Lomo 92.
koraks said:
If I were to guess I'd say they've managed to get the masking, at least to an extent, but anti-halation and esp. hue-purity enhancing DIR coupling tech does not seem to be part of the package yet.
Click to expand...

The lack of (or relative lack of) the DIAR variant of DIR is likely one aspect (and may relate to how many layers/ interlayers are available per machine pass), but there are likely to be other key components missing in terms of improving the strength of the dye mask, or at least its persistence/ mordanting. Colour purity/ saturation relative to contrast also relates to other characteristics like the extent of 'undercutting' used (which is also a trade-off between better saturation at a lower overall apparent contrast, and a loss of fine detail within those colours).

What is not clear is the extent to which Orwo/ Inoviscoat have ready access to custom synthesis (and makes me suspect that Colour Mission used up residual Agfa components that were sitting on the shelves) beyond what they can buy in from external suppliers.
 
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albireo

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Thanks for the insights. It is really upsetting. Quoting from the Optikschool blog

OptiColour 200 | A New Colour Film

This new film features natural colours, good contrast, great greens and reds and awesome skin tones!
www.optik-oldschool.com

What is this film?​

It's a new emulsion, created and coated by InovisCoat in Germany. OptiColour 200 is the Wolfen NC200 emulsion in 120
Click to expand...

Do they mean only the 120 version is new, then? Or are they lying essentially?

I have no idea what this 'Lomo 92' is, but does it exist in 120?
 

Lachlan Young

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albireo said:
Do they mean only the 120 version is new, then? Or are they lying essentially?

I have no idea what this 'Lomo 92' is, but does it exist in 120?
Click to expand...

Lomo 92 is nominally 400 speed, so it's likely that they were given a choice of a 200 speed version (which could be as 'simple' as adding a stop of neutral dye, which nevertheless may offer significant qualitative improvements in some aspects) of either that or NC500. Lomo usually do all their films in 135 & 120.

At the end of the day, it's the difference between assembling the financing for a run (split between OptiColour and Orwo) of a 'new' film that needs relatively little new R&D or one that would require more expensive and extensive synthesis and/ or R&D to replace more complex old Agfa components. The question really is whether the profitability will be enough to plough into replacing the old components needed to make a truly functional emulsion. The wonky colours described upthread by @brbo make sense when you compare the colour curves for Phoenix against any fully masked CN film, with the curves in OptiColour being shoved (by the mask) somewhere closer to the order they should go in and the required average gradient, but still close enough to each other that those that are undercorrected will cause crossover.

The thing that will be quite revealing is where Harman have got to with Phoenix II as that'll give a clearer indication of what is feasible with better financed synchem resources. It will also be interesting to see where they have got to in terms of which layer(s) they are managing to mask for contrast and colour.
 
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