Neutol ECO gone bad?

Discussion in '[Partner] ADOX' started by spijker, Oct 25, 2016.

  1. spijker

    spijker Subscriber

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    One of my colleagues was so nice to purchase some paper and two bottles of Neutol ECO for me in December 2015 from Fotoimpex while she was in Berlin. I didn't get around using it as I wanted to try out the MCC developer first. By now the (unopened) Neutol ECO has turned bright red. Is this still usable? Yes, I could just try it out but I'd hate to waste time and paper on dead developer. Darkroom time is precious these days. In general, what is the shelf life of Neutol ECO?
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2016
  2. Svenedin

    Svenedin Subscriber

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    Surely you could just do a simple test before tossing it out. Take a sheet of paper, expose one half just to bright light whilst covering the other half. Process the sheet. If you get maximum black it may be ok and is a worth a proper test print.
     
  3. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    Looking at the MSDS this developer uses Dimezone S as the primary developing agent. Since there is no secondary agent mentioned we can assume that it is something nonhazardous ie ascorbic acid. Phenisones turn pinkish when oxidized. This would lead me to suspect that the developer has seen better days. However as suggested try a test using a known negative since midtones might be lost while the developer still somewhat works.
     
  4. brunocstreet

    brunocstreet Member

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    Hello

    I use it since it was available in Portugal, and even in the shelf store it's already red ( I didn't know that it was other colour before I read this). Having said this, the blacks start to appear in the first 10/15 s and the tones come out as expected compared to other developers, so I think it's totally fine to use it!
     
  5. OP
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    spijker

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    Thanks for your replies. It looks like it's still worth trying out the developer. I'm still in the process of developing the films that I want to print. Once I get started with printing in a week or so I'll report back.
     
  6. mnemosyne

    mnemosyne Subscriber

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    Maybe the stuff is never anything other than "red". In spite of saying so, I am not sure that the OP has really seen it "turning" red. I use a very similar ascorbate based paper developer (Rollei Vintage Eco) and the standard color of fresh concentrate is dark amber. It is the same thing, a person who is not familiar with that developer might easily mistake it for being oxidized. Anyway, Mirko from Adox should know and I hope he will solve the riddle at some point.
     
  7. OP
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    spijker

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    I don't remember exactly what it looked like when I got the bottles in January. The manufacturing date on the bottles is August 2015. On the ADOX website, it shows this developer as yellow, not red at all. That's why I posted my question here hoping that someone from ADOX would answer.
     
  8. pentaxuser

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    Yes and in the MSDS section it quotes it as being light yellow. An answer from ADOX would be good

    pentaxuser
     
  9. miha

    miha Member

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    Last edited: Oct 27, 2016
  10. ADOX Fotoimpex

    ADOX Fotoimpex Partner Partner

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    "In general, what is the shelf life of Neutol ECO?"

    In Photo chemistry there is unfortunately no such thing as a definite shelf life.
    It is organic chemistry and many factors have an influenece.
    We have published a longer explanation about it in German here: http://www.adox.de/Photo/haltbarkeit-von-entwicklerkonzentraten/
    The red color may be an indicator for an edgy status of the developer but it may also still work fine. It is definitely not fresh anymore.
    These developers turn darker than conventional developers but ususally still work fine.

    In your case the info we lack is which packaging size you have bought and if it was stored the entire time with the lid facing upwards in a cold and dark place.
    In short: A 1 Liter concentrate should not have gone bad after just one year but we also do not guarantee a longer timespan. The smaller bottle sizes have a shorter shelve life. We do tell this to our customers and make them aware of this. Usually it is not a problem because the customers buy the smaller amounts to use them up immediately (and this is what they are for).
    Next to this we only produce them on demand almost every day to keep the chain short.
    We constantly improve our products and thus we have upgraded our bottles in the past 2 times. The new bottles with the rounder neck as in the images on the website preserve the chemicals better (at the offset of a higher price) so the keeping time will benefit but we are not yet at the end of live of such a bottle so we do not have a clear guess yet.
    I expect a one liter concentrate in the new bottles to last at least 24 months if stored corectly in an unopened original bottle.

    Mirko
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2016
  11. brunocstreet

    brunocstreet Member

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    Thank you for the answers Mirko! But I find it really troubling that my shop here in Lisbon is selling the chemistry in the condition you describe as "edgy", and last printing session with a new bottle took almost 30s for the print to appear in RC paper. Is it reasonable to go to the shop and complain that they are selling an expired product?
     
  12. mnemosyne

    mnemosyne Subscriber

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    There should be a date printed on the bottle. What does it say?
     
  13. OP
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    spijker

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    Thanks Mirko for your contribution. I have the 1 liter "newer style" bottles. I did keep the bottle upright in a dark and cooler storage space in the house. I tried out the developer in the 1+4 dilution last night. It seems to be fine. The image starts to appear rapidly after about 10 seconds and I get good blacks. I tried it first in a tray and as the results looked good, I then filled up the Nova slot processor. But given its age, I'll change the developer a bit earlier than usual.
     
  14. ADOX Fotoimpex

    ADOX Fotoimpex Partner Partner

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    If the developer is one year old I doubt you have the new bottles. In order to avoid confusion here are images to compare

    Old bottle:
    neutol_Eco-old.jpg

    New bottle:

    ADOX_Neutol_ECO.jpg

    Mirko
     
  15. ADOX Fotoimpex

    ADOX Fotoimpex Partner Partner

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    We print a manufacturing date on the bottles left hand of the barcode. If a shop sells developers >1 year old send me a PM and I will offer them a return.
     
  16. OP
    OP
    spijker

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    Correct, I have the old bottle but with the new colour (red, not yellow) :D
     
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