Negative high temperature

[gfevan]

Has anybody ever tried to develop BW film at high temperature?
I know that photographers like Moriyama and Araki used to do it.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/gfevan/

 

[trexx]

What is high? To what end, is cooling the solutions not an option? Summertime the tap here water is 86F.
Why do we develop at 68F/20C? Because it is room temperature, warm enough for developers to be active and safe for the films of the past. Modern films generally do not have the soft emulsions of the past and can be developed at much warmer temperatures, though most developer are only listed in the rang or 18 to 25C. Because the developer is targeted to this range using a higher temperature leads to very short development times. Short development times leads to potential inconsistencies in development. If you can over come the inconstancy then the higher temperature is OK. I have some developers I use at 86F with the results I am expecting.

The one big caution is all chemistry must be withing a couple of degrees of one another or reticulation can happen. I have found it easier to happen going warm to cold.

 

[srs5694]

The one big caution is all chemistry must be withing a couple of degrees of one another or reticulation can happen. I have found it easier to happen going warm to cold.

Most modern films are far more resistant to reticulation than this -- you need much more than a 2-degree temperature shift to cause reticulation. I haven't tested them, but I'd expect that some very old-tech emulsions, like those produced by Efke, might be more susceptible to reticulation.

 

[Ian Grant]

The usual 20°C was because emulsions were once unhardened, at 30°C you could damage the negatives, but modern B&W emulsions are now almost all well hardened like colour films so higher temperatures are possible. Essentially unhardened gelatin will begin to dissolve somewhere around 30°C I can't remember the precise figure, but EFKE/Adox films were once classic for sliding of the support easily if processed at much over 20-22°C

At one time tropical developers were used for higher temperatures and they contained a sulphate hardener, now most modern B&W films are fine at 25°C and slightly higher with no additional hardening.

Ian

 

[Ian Grant]

Most modern films are far more resistant to reticulation than this -- you need much more than a 2-degree temperature shift to cause reticulation. I haven't tested them, but I'd expect that some very old-tech emulsions, like those produced by Efke, might be more susceptible to reticulation.

Not quite true micro reticulation can occur, the visual appearance is just an increase in grain through silver halide clumping, rather than the classical reticulation which was caused by damage to the gelatin layers.

Ian

 

[la.triglia]

After several yrs it was a positive surprise for me when I developed TMAX at 27-28°C and the contrast was really better than the normal result at 20-21°C. I did this in combination with a longer time (+20%) and a vigorous agitation: 30” each 1min.

 

[PHOTOTONE]

Over the years there have been high-speed processes developed for processing black and white film in a hurry. These are generally industrial and intended for special purposes. One such process was for an early (1950's) projection television system for theatres. A 16mm special movie camera would photograph a TV program on a special CRT screen, and the film would go directly from the attached camera into a rapid reversal film processing machine, which would process, wash, dry and wax the film..from which it would then go to an attached 16mm theatre movie projector for instant playback on the BIG SCREEN of news and sports events. The projector had a standard take-up reel, so after one show, it could be rewound and run again as often as needed. It wasn't instant play back, I would guess the delay would be 5 minutes or so. The camera would take extra large rolls of 16mm film to give an hour of production. 16mm film is projected at 36 ft. per minute.

Note: I think it was reversal processing, it "could" have been negative processing, with the image on the CRT screen being photographed reversed to a negative, so the "negative" processing would yield a positive image, in which case it would be standard (not reversal) processing. It would have been a simple electronic adjustment to display a negative image rather than a positive image on a CRT screen.

 

[pentaxuser]

After several yrs it was a positive surprise for me when I developed TMAX at 27-28°C and the contrast was really better than the normal result at 20-21°C. I did this in combination with a longer time (+20%) and a vigorous agitation: 30” each 1min.

This is interesting. Do you mean that you developed for 20% more time than the developer's instructions suggested at 27-28C or 20% more than the instructions called for at 20C which is a greater increase in terms of development.

On agitation it seems you were agitating for a total of half the development time which seems a lot.

Would you be able to attach scans of the negs and prints from those negs? Until I had read your post I would have said that a combination of agitation for 50% of development time plus 20% more development time than the manufacturer of the developer suggested would have produced very contrasty negatives that would have been hard to print but this wasn't the case.

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[Murray Kelly]

I remember reading about a 'do it yourself' TV builder in this town working with a kit (?Heathkit?) when TV was 'very' new. Probably a ham radio man.
Anyway after a long and careful build he turned it on and the image was upside down.
So he took it all apart and started out anew.
(Should have reversed the leads to the deflection coils)

I tried to save money when Kodachrome was inclusive of developing and Ferraniacolor came out without that cost - you did your own or got someone else to do it. My efforts had reticulation big time. I didn't pay enough attention to differing bath temperatures. That was at somewhere around 37 C.

But I'm sure there is a site where the reader is told that all modern film makers 'prefer' 25 C as the film is a shorter time in the soup and silver migration is less. I thought it was Covington's site but can't see it there. The group on APUG of Singaporeans routinely use tap water temps (as here) in the high 20 Cs. I've done it but didn't persist. They just let fast films stand for 14 mins. The emulsions stays stuck, OK.

Only time I lost emusion was with a salt developer. The emulsion just floated off.

Murray

Note: I think it was reversal processing, it "could" have been negative processing, with the image on the CRT screen being photographed reversed to a negative, so the "negative" processing would yield a positive image, in which case it would be standard (not reversal) processing. It would have been a simple electronic adjustment to display a negative image rather than a positive image on a CRT screen.

 

[la.triglia]

This is interesting. Do you mean that you developed for 20% more time than the developer's instructions suggested at 27-28C or 20% more than the instructions called for at 20C which is a greater increase in terms of development.

On agitation it seems you were agitating for a total of half the development time which seems a lot.

Would you be able to attach scans of the negs and prints from those negs? Until I had read your post I would have said that a combination of agitation for 50% of development time plus 20% more development time than the manufacturer of the developer suggested would have produced very contrasty negatives that would have been hard to print but this wasn't the case.

Thanks

pentaxuser

Dear “pentaxuser”
1. Timing is 20% more than the instructions called for at 20C.
2. I mean agitation 30” (3-4 horizontal plus a vertical rotation repeated four times) each 1mn.
About your request, sorry, I am not anymore organized to scan negs and my actual prints (30,5x40,6) are too large for my scanner.
I also had doubt before increase those variables. I did that after reading several opinions how to increase contrast and looking at my previous neg’s tonalities. I use the zone system light’s measurement and prefer those situation where is useful under-expose. Last, I have enough tested the system with Kodak films and developer (TMAX), while I had not tried sufficiently with the Ilford materials.
Thanks for your interest
Aldo