Need times for a film I don't run across every day...

[Donald Qualls]

I just bought an Autographic Vest Pocket Kodak, second generation of the camera that introduced the world to the 127 format (this is one of the later ones, with 1921 patent dates on the removable plate surrounding the red window). One of the reasons I pulled the trigger on this particular one (which is also pretty clean and has a functional and accurate-seeming shutter -- Kodak Ball Bearing shutters are apparently immortal) was the visible presence of backing paper behind the red window in the eBay listing.

Once I received the camera, I found that what I could see was the very tail of a roll of Verichrome.

No, not Verichrome Pan, this is Verichrome, the ortho film that predated VP.

Since it was (seemingly) exposed and wound through, I'm not concerned with the original film speed (probably old ASA 50 or 64), but I do need to find developing times for Xtol stock, if possible; failing that, for Rodinal (I haven't made any since reopening my darkroom, but I have everything needed to make Parodinal), any sensible dilution of HC-110, or at least for D-76 (I can convert D-76 stock times to Xtol stock times).

In the past, I've preferred HC-110 for old found film.

 

[cmacd123]

if you are sure it is ortho film, break out the red safe-light and do it the old fashion way...

 

[Donald Qualls]

Oh, I'm certain it's Verichrome, not Verichrome Pan -- or at least the backing paper is. The paper is fragile (the tail tab tore off and lodged in the Autographic slot when winding the last of it onto the spool), so I doubt it was recycled paper (if someone had a choice, they'd want to use paper from at least the last decade of Kodak production, not stuff for a film that was discontinued 70 years ago). I can also see a series of creases close to the "fold here" at the tail, what I'd expect if the paper was wound on a slotted metal spool for decades. This gives me high confidence that this isn't recycled paper and is actually Verichrome (ortho).

I've never done see-saw and wouldn't expect good results with film that's been rolled up for seventy-plus years (and might be on nitrate base). Further, I've never done DBI.

I do recall that prior to about 1950 (and on into the '50s and even the '60s, for films that weren't new emulsions) there was a single standard time for B&W like there is for C-41, allowing a drug store to process multiple rolls together for efficiency. I recall it being something like 7 minutes at 68F in D-76 stock (which I can replicate with lower fog by using HC-110 Dilution E or 1+49, IIRC). So, if I can't find any better information, I'll pull a bottle of HC-110 syrup out of my stash and give it seven minutes at 1+49 (corrected as necessary for temperature, since my darkroom is rarely at 20C).

Oh, yes, and I need to order a 127 film holder for my scanner...

 

[jim appleyard]

I would give Kodak a call (nothing to lose here) and ask them. they've always been very knowledgeable and helpful with my questions. I might add 20% to the dev time. They can probably tell you about the nitrate base.

 

[grat]

From the 1946 Kodak Reference Handbook:

 

[Tel]

Does somebody make a 127 holder for scanning? I made my own out of some black styrene sheet years ago, but if there's a good commercial one out there I'd be interested.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Okay, I'm having phone problems at present (took my 4 year old Pixel in for a new battery, they cooked the screen and the first replacement they got was bad from the supplier -- going to be at least another couple days), so I used the contact for to send a message to Alaris. Don't know if they still have anyone there who remembers film, but I guess I'll find out.

And then I found this Photrio thread. The standard back in the day was eighteen minutes in D-76 stock, though they used a higher contrast standard than we usually do now (much of their printing was via printing-out processes). I can convert from that, though.

 

[grat]

The photos I posted list 17 minutes for intermittent agitation @ 68F for D76.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Does somebody make a 127 holder for scanning?

There are 3D printed ones of various sorts for various scanners. Some work with the older style glassless Epson film holders, as an insert in the 120 opening; others are made to go directly on the glass with slightly older Epson printers (4990, for instance). Same sellers who produce film holders for 126, 110 and other 16 mm film, and Minox.

The photos I posted list 17 minutes for intermittent agitation @ 68F for D76.

Yep, I didn't see that post when I was digging around and posting mine -- though I doubt there's a lot of difference between 17 and 18 (that's less than 6%). That's about 2 1/2 to 3 times the development you'd give a modern 100 speed conventional grain film (yes, I see that this film was old ASA 50 for daylight, but first, that's post-1960 ASA 100 anyway, and second, I'm converting developer times, not really related to the film), so for HC-110 Dilution D I'd want something like 21 minutes. Seems like one of the things that's changed as film grain has gotten smaller over the years is that it takes less development time.