Need some creative input

[moltogordo]

I just purchased a lot of six almost mint Watson bulk loaders on Ebay. Got all six for $40 bucks. Four of them have film in them. They are well marked as to contents with mechanically printed tape, and apparently the film is about 15 years old. Don't know anything about the storage conditions. This is what I have:

#1 has Ektachrome Slide Duplicating Film in it, ESD 663. Feels about half a roll there.

#2 has Ektachrome 200 EPD 404 in it, feels about half a roll

#3 has Ektachrome 64, EPR 404. Feels pretty much full

#4 (Actually an Alden loader) has Kodalith 6556 Type 3 in it. Feels full.


Need some creative input. Not interested in shooting slides, have 4 fine DSLRs for colorwork. It's mudpie time. Any suggestions from serious to outrageous will be considered and probably implemented.

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

have 4 fine DSLRs for colorwork

That's why the film industry is at the state that it is.
Next time Fuji or Kodak discontinue another colour film, don't come crying.

I'll suggest you give them away to some children to play and learn film.

 

[pdeeh]

It's disappointing to see you joining the ranks of mindless "everything digital is bad and all digital camera owners are idiots" rudeness and zealotry, Ricardo.

We have quite enough of that bollocks on APUG without usually intelligent and helpful members joining in.

 

[bernard_L]

pdeeh : +1

 

[analoguey]

If you prefer Colour in digital, that's your choice of course, I'd still like to shoot film in colour. There's a marked difference in look, I feel. Expired film might actually be fun to shoot just so? (lomo)?

 

[moltogordo]

Not a problem, pdeeh. As a professional teacher of violin and piano, I have long learned that educating is a better way, and that assumption is the mother of most mistakes. So let me tell you a bit about myself, what I do, and my aesthetics.

First of all, I actually do know quite a bit about cameras and film. Here is a photograph of ONE of my three stands of cameras in my collection:

I worked professionally in the industry for 6 years as a darkroom rat while I put myself through music school in the 70s. I also worked at a 1 hour photo lab doing color prints. Sorry, prefer digital to color film any day of the week. Less toxic, less expensive, more reliable and produces great results. Not to negate color film, but I'll pass. But in the past, I've probably printed over 2000 Cibachromes, so I do have some experience in that area. If this was still available and I could afford it, I'd do that on occasion.

Black and white is a different story. I do ALL of my B&W work on film, which is about 50% of my photography. Got into it because I dislike the look of B&W digital conversions. I am relearning some aspects, as I'd left film pretty much alone for 8 years and things have changed. But much has stayed the same. Over the past year, I've shot a roll of film in each and every camera you see in that rack, and in other cameras that you don't see. Yeah, most of it was XP2 because I have a 45 hour a week teaching schedule and conduct a symphony orchestra, so my time is not as free as it could be. But I've managed to get my darkroom technique back (I have a Chromega 4x5 in my basement darkroom and a 6700 upstairs for 5x7s) and have been investigating the new films.

I am a bit puzzled though, that in a post where I'm showing that I just bought 6 BULK LOADERS, how someone managed to think that I wasn't interested in film. Just a thought.

Was actually hoping to get some advice on perhaps souping some of this film in B&W chemistry to see what might happen.

But I'm not a total Luddite - I do think that other ways of making images can be artistically valid. For instance, I also paint, and have even had a couple of exhibitions of both my photos, and my paintings. Here's a couple of examples I had on hand:

A watercolor sketch of the Nechako River in Central BC:

A field pen sketch of a logging slash at Nukko Lake, BC:

A floral watercolor:

You see, I consider any method of making an image artistically valid. Even digital:

Cache Creek, BC, digital print from the same exhibition

I might be castigated by many here, but I think the digital medium is a worthy addition to our pallette, and should be embraced by those who wish to work in it. Isn't it the final image that counts?

By the way, I'm working on an acrylic of the photo above - that was the original reason I took the shot (Pentax K10, 400mm f5.6 Tokina ATX, 1/500th at f5.6, ISO 400). The painting will not look too different from the photo, I hope.

 

[moltogordo]

If you prefer Colour in digital, that's your choice of course, I'd still like to shoot film in colour. There's a marked difference in look, I feel. Expired film might actually be fun to shoot just so? (lomo)?

I agree with you - there is a marked difference in look. Another color on our pallette!

If I could still get Cibachrome, I would probably use film in color again. But I frankly cannot afford to get back into this arena.

It's important to me to be in control of the process from start to finish . . . . I could tolerate working with Ciba, but I simply didn't like working with E6 or C41 chemicals. And I don't want to outsource . . that's just not me. Neither are B&W conversions from digital color. My dislike of the "feel" of these is what got me back into film, and I now do ALL of my B&W with film. That's at least half my photography!

But I'm going to take your suggestion and try shooting some just as is. I bought myself a nice used Topcon RE Super for Christmas, so maybe I'll baptise it with some Ekta 200! Thanks! That's one!

 

[moltogordo]

So now that I've explained my aesthetic, what are some other interesting things I might do with this film?? I've heard that it can be developed in B&W chemicals, and I have done some work with Litho, but not 35mm bulk litho.


Would caffenol work with Ektachrome? Rodinal? Suggestions would be great!

 

[bdial]

B&W developers will work, the first developer in E-6 is more or less a standard B&W developer.

Have you considered cross-processing it in C-41? You end up with a color negative that has more saturation than you get from regular color neg film, and no orange mask.
Some labs are shy about taking E-6 film for negative processing, but it does not harm the chemistry.

 

[analoguey]

I agree with you - there is a marked difference in look. Another color on our pallette!

If I could still get Cibachrome, I would probably use film in color again. But I frankly cannot afford to get back into this arena.

It's important to me to be in control of the process from start to finish . . . . I could tolerate working with Ciba, but I simply didn't like working with E6 or C41 chemicals. And I don't want to outsource . . that's just not me. Neither are B&W conversions from digital color. My dislike of the "feel" of these is what got me back into film, and I now do ALL of my B&W with film. That's at least half my photography!

Indeed, certainly is another palette! I moved from starting w digital and going to analog, so I certainly don't have your experience with film or colour!

I definitely do understand what you mean about keeping Control of the whole process - I have been on that learning curve a while, and certainly is quite rewarding!

I'm not sure if you've specified before, but is the end result sought as a print or a scan? That might give you more choices?

But I'm going to take your suggestion and try shooting some just as is. I bought myself a nice used Topcon RE Super for Christmas, so maybe I'll baptise it with some Ekta 200! Thanks! That's one!

All the best! Let us know how they turn up!

 

[pdeeh]

If I had all that stuff I'd be inclined to resell all the colour stock at a profit to expired film obsessives

but i'd keep the kodalith and shoot a lot of winter light contre-jour, processing it as the mood took me and hoping for some interesting extreme contrast ... which I might then make lith prints from.

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

@moltogordo and pdeeh
Sorry! I am just a bit frustrated and worried we might loose another colour film.
And I'm getting a bit sick of being asked "why don't you use D...?" in the streets.
I always like to give a positive answer and it is nice to see people stopping me in the streets, especially youngsters interested in film.

Moltogordo
Thanks for your post.
It is nice to see your "collection". Just hope you use them from time to time.
Myself I have over 70 cameras that I try to rotate. There are some that I like more than others.

As you are a teacher, and I was one myself many years ago, my suggestion stands. Next time you have a young fellow asking questions about your photographs, you can give them a roll to try.
That's what I do since I have a bit of expired Lucky film and the factory closed doors to film manufacture. Just learned a few days ago that even B&W film (SHD100) that was still being produced has gone now.

 

[moltogordo]

Great, thanks guys! So now I have four to do:

1) try a roll "as is"
2) try one in black and white developer (I'll try Rodinal first - any time suggestions?)
3) try one cross processed. I know the guy in my local lab so he'll be game! I'd never heard of this before, so I find this very interesting.
4) lith prints at high contrast.

End result will probably be a print . . . I don't have a negative scanner, just an Epson flatbed. I'll keep you informed. Probably usea a table top tripod and do some still lifes as subjects to start off with. Weather's lousy here - all of our 3 feet of snow has melted and we've had 4 days of rain. :alien:

I might also have to become an expired film obsessive, myself! I have also in my "collection", all recently discovered in an old box and an old freezer: One almost full roll of Kodak 2475 Recording Film, a half-roll of Plus X, a roll of HP5 and some SO duplicating film in 4x5.

Lots of playing this winter!

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Booo.

....
Need some creative input. Not interested in shooting slides, have 4 fine DSLRs for colorwork...

The best creative and seasonal move for you is to offer it for free.

One of my buddies in California is taking pictures on old slides and it is developed in local lab.

 

[moltogordo]

@moltogordo and pdeeh
Sorry! I am just a bit frustrated and worried we might loose another colour film.
And I'm getting a bit sick of being asked "why don't you use D...?" in the streets.
I always like to give a positive answer and it is nice to see people stopping me in the streets, especially youngsters interested in film.

Moltogordo
Thanks for your post.
It is nice to see your "collection". Just hope you use them from time to time.
Myself I have over 70 cameras that I try to rotate. There are some that I like more than others.

As you are a teacher, and I was one myself many years ago, my suggestion stands. Next time you have a young fellow asking questions about your photographs, you can give them a roll to try.
That's what I do since I have a bit of expired Lucky film and the factory closed doors to film manufacture. Just learned a few days ago that even B&W film (SHD100) that was still being produced has gone now.

I share your pain. I was one of the last holdouts for film, and went digital as a submissive gesture to 'progress', whatever that is. The loss of Kodachrome was tough . . . I thought it might be the last to go. My fondness for Cibachrome was also blown out of the water. That was truly great stuff and I used it to the end. I finally came to see digital as just another medium to use, and no longer resent it. Just brought it into the fold.

Looking at some of my old prints last year, I realized we had made no real progress in imaging via digital. Just something different. So, as a painter, I figured this digital stuff is just a new tube of Daniel Smith quinacridone watercolor.

Films I miss the most: Kodachrome 64 and 200, Verichrome Pan, Recording 2475, Plus-X and Konica 3200 and Anscochrome 100.
Developers I miss the most: FG7, Cibachrome process, Ilford XP1 (a great C41 two step kit)

As I never used anything terribly esoteric, I wasn't really hurt to bad in the chemical department - what I use is still there except for Fg7 and Ciba.

I have actually given away half a dozen film cameras (seconds and duplicates) to friends and violin students, and had the pleasure of introducing a couple of them to straight printing.

I'm doing a bit of stockpiling, but I'm pretty sure that there will be film around in the future, but a much more limited selection. I have heard that the British Government has invested in Harmon via their pension plan funds, so they see film as a future commodity, obviously, and more film was sold last year than the last 3 years before it according to one source I read, so it's not hopeless.

With respect to my camera collection, I fire all of their shutters about twice a month, and I have a stable of my favorite users: (in order of preference)

35mm: Olympus Pen FT, Pentax MX, Exakta VX 500, Nikon FM, Miranda Sensorex II
Medium format: Mamiya C330, Minolta Autocord - and I'm planning to purchase a copy of my old flame the Pentax 645
Large Format: only have one, my Linhof Kardan monorail

Haven't used much in the way of medium or large format lately, but that'll come when I finish learning about the new films. About 90% of my medium and large format work is done with HP5 and HC110, and I'm not likely to change that. The occasional roll of Foma 400 or Shanghai might pass through the Mamiya's gates - I've tried those and like them.

 

[Jonathan Van Matre]

+1 for cross processing the slide film. While you can use the chromes for B&W, why let all those lovely dyes go to waste?

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

Hi moltogordo

I'm doing a bit of stockpiling, but I'm pretty sure that there will be film around in the future, but a much more limited selection. I have heard that the British Government has invested in Harmon via their pension plan funds

First, this is the first time I've heard it! I haven't heard about the UK government investing in Harman and never associated with any pension fund. Aren't you making some confusion with kodak Alaris and the KPP fund?
Second, I don't think stockpiling helps the manufacturer as there will be long times between purchases. I buy film every 3 months or less.

I use almost 100% 35mm and have an extended collection of Nikon, Minolta, Pentax and Olympus SLRs. But, I go by phases: now it is time of the Olympus and I like to use 2 identical or very similar cameras side by side. One will have B&W and the other colour film. They also have different lenses. Sometimes they'll have the same lenses. I like the Olympuses because even the Auto ones can be used with the switch on Off.

 

[moltogordo]

Hi moltogordo



First, this is the first time I've heard it! I haven't heard about the UK government investing in Harman and never associated with any pension fund. Aren't you making some confusion with kodak Alaris and the KPP fund?
Second, I don't think stockpiling helps the manufacturer as there will be long times between purchases. I buy film every 3 months or less.

I use almost 100% 35mm and have an extended collection of Nikon, Minolta, Pentax and Olympus SLRs. But, I go by phases: now it is time of the Olympus and I like to use 2 identical or very similar cameras side by side. One will have B&W and the other colour film. They also have different lenses. Sometimes they'll have the same lenses. I like the Olympuses because even the Auto ones can be used with the switch on Off.

Ricardo: I was sent the Ilford/Harmon information via a screenshot of a page from "The Economist" by a friend last January, so I think it's probably legit. Don't know what issue. Not making any confusion here. There was also a post about it in one of the Photo Forums, Pop Photo, I think. Don't quote me on that. I also didn't pursue it too much . . . just filed it under "Heartening News!" And if I remember, they invested in Ilford, not Harmon, although Harmon owns Ilford. Unsure. Not a finance guy.

You make a point on stockpiling, but I usually leave that stuff alone in the freezer and continue to buy fresh. I think we can make more impact by posting film pictures on our forums and getting other folks interested - Gordo buying $200 worth of film doesn't make much impact to the Great Yellow God in Rochester. I'll keep doing it, though.

You seem to have your collection pretty well thought out. Mine goes from 1951 (my Birthdate) to c.1984, or when electronic shutters became de rigeure. My collection contains only mechanical cameras (unless I've been given one), and only SLRs and TLRs from Japan or East Germany. And I pick my favorite from each line. The only one I have a complete set of is the Exas - have an example of every on ever made. For instance, I have only the Olympus OM1n because it's my favorite of the group. OM3 would be nice but so would my ability to buy food for a month! If I particularly like a camera, I'll have multiples because they'll be users. I actually have 2 OM1s - like the camera a lot. I also have a 21mm, 50mm and 100mm Zuiko for them. With other cameras, I have a couple of manufacturer's lenses, and past that I use Tamrons so I can switch them from camera to camera.

I'm basically a medium format and sub-miniature guy (figure it's the best combo! ), so my most used cameras are my Olympus Pens and my Mamiya C330.

Unless you put some limits on your collection, it can go right out of hand!! So wonderful as they are, no Rolleis, Leicas, Alpas, Hasselblads, etc. I'm only partially insane.

 

[Arklatexian]

If I had all that stuff I'd be inclined to resell all the colour stock at a profit to expired film obsessives

but i'd keep the kodalith and shoot a lot of winter light contre-jour, processing it as the mood took me and hoping for some interesting extreme contrast ... which I might then make lith prints from.

My thoughts exactly. Also what kodalith that I have used was orthochromatic and was developed under a red safelight. Maybe I learned a little about developing by inspection because of that. For the other film loaders, I would fill them with whatever B&W film that took my fancy.....Regards

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Isn't it the final image that counts?

many say sobut I never thought that.For me, in photography the journy is more interesting than the destination and I think the conversations on APUG are proof of that.BTW,I pretty much left the darkroom about a year ago and went all digital for conveniencealone.I really enjoy it and have a blast learning something new.

 

[moltogordo]

Ralph - important point you made. "I really enjoy it and have a blast learning something new."

Ditto. Getting back in the darkroom and learning all about Fomapan 400 and a few other new films and soups, was just terrific. Took me off the treadmill for a while and breathed some fresh air into my being!

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

It's disappointing to see you joining the ranks of mindless "everything digital is bad and all digital camera owners are idiots" rudeness and zealotry, Ricardo.

We have quite enough of that bollocks on APUG without usually intelligent and helpful members joining in.

Just a gentle clarification before continuing.

We here on APUG are not a group of mindless, rude, and zealous idiots contributing only anti-digital bullocks. Please do not characterize us as such. To the contrary, many (most?) on here are well-versed in straight digital or hybrid digital imaging technologies. Perhaps far more than you realize?

We just exhibit the collective courtesy of NOT discussing those subjects here because they are off-topic to the charter of this site. We come here knowing and respecting that charter in advance. And sometimes become irritated when others then accuse us of be narrow-minded anti-digital imaging zealots.

My last major "darkroom" purchase was a brand new Epson Perfection V750 PRO flatbed scanner to handle my 8x10 negatives. The cost was about the same as one of those Alistar Inglis 8x10 gaseous burst sheet film processing tank lines.

Up until this moment you probably didn't know I had made that purchase.

Think about it...

Ken

 

[moltogordo]

Ralph - important point you made. "I really enjoy it and have a blast learning something new."

Ditto. Getting back in the darkroom and learning all about Fomapan 400 and a few other new films, was just terrific. Took me off the treadmill for a while and breathed some fresh air into my being!

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

OK... Me?

I'd probably take the Ektachrome 64, hand cut 10-inch strips, in the darkroom tape them lengthwise across the septums of 8x10 film holders with black photo tape, then set up the 8x10 Beast at 3:00am in town and do ultra-wides at long exposures of the wet and glistening empty streets and storefronts. Probably with the traffic signals on Main Street placed on the far edge of the strip.

I have a particularly sinister tattoo parlor in mind that has a great full-window neon sign that they leave on all night. Already surrealistic, I might anticipate even more so with the false and possibly garish colors that out-of-date color transparency stock might render under these harsh conditions.

Why 3:00am?

It's dark. And it's almost winter. So it's cold. And raining. No one is out and about. No cars parked obscuring store fronts. Most importantly no people visible anywhere at all. Just the final viewer's imagination to backfill their own visual interpretations.

But that's just me...

Ken

 

[moltogordo]

OK... Me?

I'd probably take the Ektachrome 64, hand cut 10-inch strips, in the darkroom tape them lengthwise across the septums of 8x10 film holders with black photo tape, then set up the 8x10 Beast at 3:00am in town and do ultra-wides at long exposures of the wet and glistening empty streets and storefronts. Probably with the traffic signals on Main Street placed on the far edge of the strip.

I have a particularly sinister tattoo parlor in mind that has a great full-window neon sign that they leave on all night. Already surrealistic, I might anticipate even more so with the false and possibly garish colors that out-of-date color transparency stock might render under these harsh conditions.

Why 3:00am?

It's dark. And it's almost winter. So it's cold. And raining. No one is out and about. No cars parked obscuring store fronts. Most importantly no people visible anywhere at all. Just the final viewer's imagination to backfill their own visual interpretations.

But that's just me...

Ken

WOW!!!