Need help to develop Ektachrome 100 with HC110 and ECN2 Chemistry,

[GeraltofLARiver]

I know it would be easier to have it done with proper E-6 chemistry, but I'm too far down the rabbit hole. I am getting color slides out of this process but they have a very dark almost blue base on the film itself. The slides have great color when you get a really bright light behind it but are WAY TOO opaque. Chemistry is all good as I have done both ECN2 and Black and White separately in it and gotten great results. It almost looks like theres a layer of something that isn't being developed or isn't clearing. Ill post pictures. FYI I am using a 60w Smallrig LED at 1-2 feet distance and full brightness for 2 mins per side. Trying to figure out why i am not getting transparent slides. The ones that show color are backlit the other is frontlit.

 

[Yezishu]

Based on my recent experiences on the hybrid process:
1. The major issue might be insufficient development time with HC110, leading to overall high density.
2. The red color cast on flim base might be due to inadequate development time in the ECN2 color process.
3. High temperature or excessive agitation during the HC110 FD, or a low temperature and insufficient agitation during the color development, resulted in insufficient cyan dye formation, leading to low cyan contrast.
4. Low pH during bleaching caused the formation of colorless cyan dye.
5. It's normal for one side of the film to appear cyan when wet(and the transparent part can be milky), but if the CD/bleaching/fixing are done properly, the edge area should appear black once dry.

ECN2 and HC110 processes work well individually doesn't mean they will auto perform well on E6 film.
You know that the hybrid process hasn't been fine-tuned, I wouldn't be surprised if the optimal parameters turn out to be something like "ECN2 CD at 45℃ for 5 min. “

 

[BHuij]

I've been chatting with OP on Reddit about this, and am probably to blame for him wanting to try this process in the first place.

I've had excellent results using HC-110 Dil A at 105°F for 6m30s as a first developer, with constant agitation. Then a thorough water stop, a thorough light fogging, and then using ECN-2 color dev (4 mins), bleach (5 mins), fixer (5 mins). And of course a final wash and stabilizer bath before drying. So far I've had great slides in 35mm, 120, and 4x5 with this method.

My first thought was also insufficient first developer, but I think OP has done some iteration and possibly ruled that out.

Following with interest, because I had no idea that you could overdo the agitation or even really the temperature with HC-110 in a way that would result in color shifts towards cyan, or that having a low pH in the bleach could introduce color casts. I've never tested my bleach, and actually use a modified version of ECN-2 bleach based on potassium ferricyanide, but omitting the sulfuric acid. Seems likely that my bleach has a somewhat higher pH than OP's.

My best guess at this point would have been insufficient fogging. Is the color developer process a "to completion" process like bleach and fixer? If so, increasing the time in the color dev might help, without introducing a lot of risk.

 

[GeraltofLARiver]

The bleach is interesting. I’m actually using a C-41 bleach right now as I had a kit with leftovers. It works great for ECN2 negs but maybe it is a problem for this Ektachrome. I have the chems to make my own bleach so I might do that for the next roll.

 

[F4U]

I believe I'd use the correct chemistry.

 

[BHuij]

I won't speculate since I am not educated or informed enough to discuss chemical differences between C-41 and ECN-2 bleaches.

But if you're looking for a recipe, the one I use (with success so far with slide film, cinema films, and even regular color negative films) is here.

 

[GeraltofLARiver]

I believe I'd use the correct chemistry.

Yes. I know that’s ideal. I am playing around with this process to see if I can get good results.

 

[Yezishu]

The bleach is interesting. I’m actually using a C-41 bleach right now as I had a kit with leftovers. It works great for ECN2 negs but maybe it is a problem for this Ektachrome. I have the chems to make my own bleach so I might do that for the next roll.

Commercial bleach generally shouldn't cause issues; pH errors usually arise with homemade soups.

May I ask if you've conducted some bracketing tests or leader tests?
1.A fully exposed film leader that goes through FD/CD/Bleach/Fixing and ends up completely transparent with a normal film base color(no milky white and gray fog after drying) indicates that the Bleach/Fixing process is working correctly.
2.An unexposed film segment that goes through FD/CD/Bleach/Fixing and results in a deep black film base suggests that the CD process is functioning properly.
3.Try bracketing exposures at +2/+1/0/-1/-2 stops. This can be done with some frames or within a single frame with significant bright and dark areas. If the +2 stop appears very transparent and lightly colored, while the -2 stop is deep dark (similar to your current photos), it indicates that the FD/exposure combination is correct.
4. Finally, make more fine adjustments for color casts and crossover, such as increasing FD time while lowering the temperature.
Only need a small amount of film to do this (a few cm at a time is enough), hope this helps you.

One more tesing: For existing film in photo, re-placing some sample frame into a known working bleach/fixing bath with double the time(may be 20 min), to see if they can be cleaner, can also help diagnose under-bleaching/under-fixoing problem.

 

[GeraltofLARiver]

Commercial bleach generally shouldn't cause issues; pH errors usually arise with homemade soups.

May I ask if you've conducted some bracketing tests or leader tests?
1.A fully exposed film leader that goes through FD/CD/Bleach/Fixing and ends up completely transparent with a normal film base color indicates that the Bleach/Fixing process is working correctly.
2.An unexposed film segment that goes through FD/CD/Bleach/Fixing and results in a deep black film base suggests that the CD process is functioning properly.
3.Try bracketing exposures at +2/+1/0/-1/-2 stops. This can be done with some frames or within a single frame with significant bright and dark areas. If the +2 stop appears very transparent and lightly colored, while the -2 stop is deep dark (similar to your current photos), it indicates that the FD/exposure combination is correct.
4. Finally, make more fine adjustments for color casts and crossover, such as increasing FD time while lowering the temperature.
Only need a small amount of film to do this (a few cm at a time is enough), hope this helps you.

I’ll do a leader test next time instead of wasting an entire role of film. It’s a good idea to help me figure out where in my process the issue lies. This is good advice. Thank you. Pretty sure exposure is good as the camera does a great job with exposure generally on all films.

 

[GeraltofLARiver]

Also gonna re-bleach and re-fix the existing slides just to check it

 

[Yezishu]

Also gonna re-bleach and re-fix the existing slides just to check it

Keep going! You're on the right way and have already achieved some promising color images—I can see them in the cyan and magenta layers. The adjustments ahead won't take too long.

Today I just ran into this issue where my homemade bleach didn't work well, resulting in a dark slide. However, a sample from the same roll cleared up quickly with commercial bleach, so it just needs more bleach time. This is much better than dealing with excessive dye.

 

[GeraltofLARiver]

Keep going! You're on the right way and have already achieved some promising color images—I can see them in the cyan and magenta layers. The adjustments ahead won't take too long.

Today I just ran into this issue where my homemade bleach didn't work well, resulting in a dark slide. However, a sample from the same roll cleared up quickly with commercial bleach, so it just needs more bleach time. This is much better than dealing with excessive dye.

Seems to be an issue with the bleach. After a longer rebleach/fix I have much better slides. I think if I mix some fresh bleach and re-bleach the whole roll they will come out just fine. Will update later.

 

[GeraltofLARiver]

Here are two slides from the same roll. First one has been re-bleached and fixed. Second one is without.

 

[BHuij]

Definitely a major improvement. Maybe your C-41 bleach was near end of life?

My ECN-2 bleach uses potassium ferricyanide, while most C-41 bleach is ferric ammonium EDTA. The EDTA is less aggressive. So it makes sense that you'd need more time with it.

I'm still so curious about how the edges of your rolls ended up transparent.

 

[GeraltofLARiver]

Definitely a major improvement. Maybe your C-41 bleach was near end of life?

My ECN-2 bleach uses potassium ferricyanide, while most C-41 bleach is ferric ammonium EDTA. The EDTA is less aggressive. So it makes sense that you'd need more time with it.

I'm still so curious about how the edges of your rolls ended up transparent.

My best guess on why the edges might be transparent is that I didn’t have a roll on top in the tank but I had the reel inside still and maybe something to do with developer surge during development in the Patterson tank over developed the edges of the roll. I’ve had it happen with negatives before.

 

[Yezishu]

Good job! Happy to see that you can recover the roll. Assuming the bleach hasn't changed since the last successful negative processing, it might just be that the reversal process places a heavier load on the bleach, requiring a longer bleaching time. Unlike negatives, most of the silver is oxidized during slide bleaching, the exact time needed can vary depending on the film.

The transparency line along the edge might suggests some issues with the camera's light seals. Is this the same on other films?

 

[GeraltofLARiver]

Good job! Happy to see that you can recover the roll. Assuming the bleach hasn't changed since the last successful negative processing, it might just be that the reversal process places a heavier load on the bleach, requiring a longer bleaching time. Unlike negatives, most of the silver is oxidized during slide bleaching, the exact time needed can vary depending on the film.

The transparency line along the edge might suggests some issues with the camera's light seals. Is this the same on other films?

No, there’s no issue with the light seals on the camera. Every other roll has been just fine. I think it was just the way it rolled up in the Patterson tank or something.