Need Advice on Film Processing--especially B&W

[FilmOnly]

I have discussed this issue before, but have yet to find resoluton. I know that many of you develop (and print?) your own film, but I have yet to get to this stage. I have small children, and sometimes barely have enough time and energy to shoot. Please keep in mind that my goal regards both developing and printing (not just developing).

Anyway, I have been sending my 35mm film to a pro lab on the west coast. They have reasonable rates, and have been near-perfect with my color film--only one mistake that I have noticed in dozens of rolls...almost two years worth--but their work with b&w, while good overall, is not as reliable (but clearly more reliable than the other four or five labs I have tried). I would approximate that I see a small dot or speck in a shot or two every third or fourth roll. Thus, a number of rolls come back fine, but some (a lesser amount) have not. What is frustrating is that the dot or speck (or whatever) always seems to be on the better shots. I have become a better photographer over the years, and so I guess the likliness of this happening has increased (with many more nice shots on a roll).

What should I do? Why is the problem essentially only with b&w processing? Could anyone recommend a good lab (with decent prices) for 35mm b&w? With regard to doing it myself, time and energy are scare for me right now. I also would like to print, not just develop. The whole question of equipment then arises. Inkjet printing would seem to pale in comparison to printing done by a pro lab. Thus, optical printing would seem a good choice, but then I know little about optical equipment. I would want to print full frame, mostly 4X6 and 8x12.

 

[Rick A]

Therein lies the true art, and the fulfilling of the vision. Processing is the easy part, can be done without a darkroom. All that's needed is a totally dark place to load film into the tank, blacked out room, or changing tent, then doing the actual process in lighted room(kitchen or bath). Printing is more involved, more dark area required for an enlarger and processing trays. This can be done almost anywhere, no running water necessary(but helpful). Lots of people use a bathroom or spare closet for this. Laundry rooms, or in my case, a utility room will suffice, print washing accomplished in the kitchen sink. There are many inexpensive enlargers to be had, but make sure you get a quality lns for it. A set of 4-6 trays of adaquate size for the print, and a few chems, paper and a decent darkroom manual, and you are in business. You can get more involved or keep it very minimal, all your choice. Be forwarned, once you start, you will be hooked and not settle for minimalism.

 

[nworth]

Unfortunately, good black and white labs are becoming rare. It's also always helpful if you can talk to your lab people. Talk to other photographers in your area, and see if there is a decent local lab that can do your work (either for black and white or color or both). If not, there are a couple of ways to go. One is to shoot Ilford XP-2, a chromogenic black and white film that is processed just like color negative film. Results with this film are excellent. For regular black and white film, you can process your own quite easily. Your volume is so low, however, that it may not be economical. Joining up with other photographers may be an answer.

If you process your own film, you need only modest equipment. You don't really need a darkroom, since you can buy a changing bag to load film into the developing tank. Beyond that, you need a developing tank and its companion film reel, three bottles to hold the solutions, a funnel, a couple of clips or clothespins, and a place to hang the film to dry. A processing thermometer is handy in the Southwest, because of the big changes in temperature. The processing solutions are not particularly toxic, but you should still store them out of reach for small children. The solutions also have a finite life, particularly when partially used, and need to be periodically discarded and replaced.

 

[FilmOnly]

I very much appreciate the replies. I may try C-41 b&w film, at least for the present time. I will look toward planning for my own developing and printing--though I cannot say when I will actually begin. Can anyone supply ideas on enlargers (brands, types, prices, etc.) and other printing equipment? I usually buy from KEH, but I have never checked to see if they sell equipment for printing.

What do you folks think of Kodak 400CN? I used this film years ago, but the lab I used was not as good as the one I use now, and they also used color paper, which gave an odd look to the prints. The lab I currently use will supply true b&w paper. I ask about 400CN because I just checked Freestyle's prices, and 400CN is quite a bit less expensive. Price, however, is not my highest priority.

 

[mjs]

Even if you are processing and printing your own film, dust (assuming the specks you refer to are dust,) will be a continuing battle. It wouldn't shock me to have film returned from a pro lab with a speck of dust or two on the roll -- in fact, if it's one or two specks on a roll of film, I would be pleased, not upset with them. Others may well disagree; your mileage may vary. But finding labs which still do B&W is, as others have noted, becoming more difficult.

Mike

 

[bwrules]

Developing film is a routine activity like doing laundry, etc. A changing bag is more convenient than a dark room.

 

[Oren Grad]

I would approximate that I see a small dot or speck in a shot or two every third or fourth roll. Thus, a number of rolls come back fine, but some (a lesser amount) have not. What is frustrating is that the dot or speck (or whatever) always seems to be on the better shots.

What specifically do you mean by "dot or speck"? If it's surface dust or processing residue, and particularly if it's on the base side rather than the emulsion side, it may be possible to clean the negative and have a reprint made of any pictures that are especially important to you.

 

[jeffreyg]

Although you apparently don't have the time you might consider a non-credit darkroom course often given at community colleges. If you can swing that you would have an opportunity to get your "fingers wet" and see if printing your own is what you want as well as trying what enlargers they have, the chemistry and paper that is used. Also frequently good instruction. Most often the cost is modest and you have no real obligation.

Others have addressed the dot/speck problem.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

 

[lns]

... their work with b&w, while good overall, is not as reliable (but clearly more reliable than the other four or five labs I have tried). I would approximate that I see a small dot or speck in a shot or two every third or fourth roll...

I dunno, I process my own black and white film, and I wouldn't be very upset about a small dot or speck every third or fourth roll. It doesn't seem that bad.

Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by "a small dot or speck." If you mean a little dust, that's just the way it is, and that can be blown off. If you mean the film is scratched, then you can tell them that. If you mean something adheres to the negative and can't be removed, you also should tell them that, too. It could indicate bad processing, I suppose. But again it doesn't seem that bad to me. Are you just looking at negatives, or a proof sheet or prints?

Why not try try developing b&w? It is quite easy to do at night after the kids are asleep, hanging the negatives to dry overnight. You can develop and clean up and be done in an hour or so. I have kids and I use X-Tol or HC-110, as they seem relatively safe. I keep the chemicals and equipment where the kids can't get them. I also have a separate drying rack and cleaning sponge for the photo stuff. Start with a 2-reel tank, buy a good photo thermometer, buy non-hardening rapid fixer (Ilford Rapid Fixer is good), buy Photo Flo. You can stop with water. You can wash film in the tank with running water or use Ilford's fill-and-dump method. Not hard, not too expensive to get started, and much cheaper in the end. Henry Horenstein has a nice book "Black and white Photography: A Basic Manual" which can explain more. If you can find the time, which I understand is difficult with kids, a class in b&w photography is also a great idea.

-Laura

 

[Allen Friday]

For non moving subjects, I regularly make two exposures of the scene. That way, if there is a flaw on one negative, the other will normally be good. I even do this with sheet film. There is a variation of Murphy's Law that states if there is a flaw on a negative, it will be on your best shot.

 

[FilmOnly]

Oren Grad: I will look into this.

Allen Friday: good advice...I tend to do this, but sometimes forget.

The other advice here is excellent, too--thanks.

 

[Jeff Kubach]

If you need more info on developing and printing B&W check out your local library.

Jeff

 

[Dave in Kansas]

As others have said, it isn't difficult to process your own B & W film, and it really does only take about an hour to do a roll from start to finish. Of course once you have developed negatives you need to do something with those. The can be converted to a non-analog media very easily.

In the meantime, you might also try one or two different labs. I agree that it is difficult to get good B & W work at most labs. One thing to keep in mind is that most labs seem to be "optimized" for certain films. I have a local lab that I've used in the past for some 35mm work that I didn't want to print myself and I got real nice pictures back that were shot on common normal speed films - Plus-X, TMax, etc. But I had them develop a roll of Neopan 1600 over a year ago and the prints were so bad that I just wanted to toss them in the trash. If fact, they are still under the seat in my car because I don't care enough about them to take them into the house to throw away.

Dave

 

[pentaxuser]

For goodness sake don't go on a local college B&W darkroom course unless you get your wife's agreement first? Why? Well when you come back you will just have to convert one of the kids' bedrooms to a darkroom or build one in the garden.

There will be no turning back. If the wife doesn't agree in advance to a darkroom then consider whether you can sell her into white slavery Keep the kids. Properly trained they will make great darkroom assistants and want to take over in a few years.

It is so addictive. Being able to say at the end of the college course: "Well that was nice but now I need to get on with life as before" is just not an option.

Seriously though once you have processed a film and made some great prints from the negs at college a new vista opens up. The wife will like the prints and the kids will love the magic of seeing a blank piece of paper turn into a picture nearly as much as you.

pentaxuser

 

[Diapositivo]

I don't practice black and white myself but, when I do, I'll certainly develop and print by myself. Developing and printing colour material, colour filtration apart, leaves as far as I understand much less room for personal choices than B&W. Having somebody else develop and print your own B&W somehow misses on one of the pleasures of this discipline, which is extracting "your" print from the many possibilities that a negative gives, and also playing with different developers.

So I would suggest beginning from developing B&W at home, which is the easiest practice. When you are experienced with that, you might examine developing at home C-41 or E-6. But in any case C-41 or E-6 by a laboratory, cost and time waste apart, will yield satisfactory results while B&W developing is something that "belongs to the photographer" to do, so to speak.

Film can be safely cleaned with a commercial product called PEC-12. I have one small flask which I never used because, developing my slides myself, I never found them dirty. When I cut film I manipulate it with cotton gloves, otherwise I just use my bare hands paying attention not to leave fingerprints on it, not to put it on a dirty surface etc.

Developing at home should reduce the dirt problem.

Fabrizio