Mystery Tiger Striping

joseph saunders · Sep 30, 2016

Bill Burk said:
All my 35mm cameras can. All it takes is a free-wheeling rewind crank.

A single photographer, would not likely have this issue because, well... you get used to doing it right.

But a teacher with classroom of students who may have never handled a camera before... Now you're talking about something that can happen every now and then.

O-N-F, you were right all along! You didn't say "don't ask me how I know"... so... How did you know?

yes this could be to blame on new students to the new medium but it is an 2nd level film class but of course accidents happen and i feel that, that is the case. Noob error

Photo Engineer · Sep 30, 2016

I have to agree that this is stress fogging due to incorrect winding in the camera. It is so rare that I believe it is the first one I have seen on APUG and probably only the second or third I've seen in my life.

Sorry to all. I got it wrong with my guess of Bromide drag.

PE

joseph saunders · Sep 30, 2016

Photo Engineer said:
I have to agree that this is stress fogging due to incorrect winding in the camera. It is so rare that I believe it is the first one I have seen on APUG and probably only the second or third I've seen in my life.

Sorry to all. I got it wrong with my guess of Bromide drag.

PE

it was a good guess! This is a big rarity of this happening i have been told. I appreciate your help

Old-N-Feeble · Sep 30, 2016

Photo Engineer said:
I have to agree that this is stress fogging due to incorrect winding in the camera. It is so rare that I believe it is the first one I have seen on APUG and probably only the second or third I've seen in my life.

Sorry to all. I got it wrong with my guess of Bromide drag.

PE

Damn... It's discomforting to learn that my mess-up at an early age is so very rare. Frankly, I don't believe it. My guess is there are far more dumb-asses in the world than just me and the OP!!

Photo Engineer · Sep 30, 2016

There are, but they know enough not to publicize it!!

I had a toilet seat rejoinder, but that was even more inappropriate but a lot funnier.

PE

AgX · Sep 30, 2016

But all camera/camera operating related explanations are in conflict with the first 3 frames being unaffected (with the fogging then starting abrupt and violantly).

Old-N-Feeble · Sep 30, 2016

AgX said:
But all camera/camera operating related explanations are in conflict with the first 3 frames being uneffected (with the fogging then starting abrupt and violantly).

No... they're not.

pbromaghin · Sep 30, 2016

AgX said:
But all camera/camera operating related explanations are in conflict with the first 3 frames being unaffected (with the fogging then starting abrupt and violantly).

I would suggest it's because by the time they are going around the bend there is no longer any tension from the take up spool.

winger · Sep 30, 2016

pbromaghin said:
I would suggest it's because by the time they are going around the bend there is no longer any tension from the take up spool.

Yup, pretty much what I was thinking.

And I think I can find an example similar to this from my years of shooting, too. I didn't wind it backwards and it isn't exactly the same, but I put added tension on a section of the roll while rewinding it because I moved the winder and didn't press the release button again (Pentax H1a).

AgX · Sep 30, 2016

pbromaghin said:
I would suggest it's because by the time they are going around the bend there is no longer any tension from the take up spool.

The moment the leader comes loose from the take-up spool, the first frames already have passed that edge at the cassette mouth.

pbromaghin · Sep 30, 2016

AgX said:
The moment the leader comes loose from the take-up spool, the first frames already have passed that edge at the cassette mouth.

I was hoping you wouldn't think of that....

AgX · Sep 30, 2016

That is what I like about these artefacts-mysteries. Things seem easy to explain, but then something spoils it all.
And one has to start contemplating again.

And maybe at the end we all say "Why didn't we think of that before?" We shall see...

mshchem · Sep 30, 2016

Take 2 rolls of Tri-X run both through a K-1000 with the lens cap on at 1000th @ f16 (No exposure) rewind one normally and the other backwards. Process both rolls in the same tank normally.

Purely Empirical, but it would be a fun little check.

Maybe we should market a Lomo film called "Stressed" comes like this from the factory
Best Mike

AgX · Oct 1, 2016

mshchem said:
Maybe we should market a Lomo film called "Stressed" comes like this from the factory

Send your proposal to Revolog.

Arctic amateur · Oct 1, 2016

Perhaps the first frames are unaffected because the person doing the winding slowed down in order to stop winding the moment the leader let go of the take-up spool, thus reducing the stress on those frames?

AgX · Oct 1, 2016

The start (or end) of that artefact is quite pronounced.

David A. Goldfarb · Oct 1, 2016

The usual bromide drag effect from insufficient agitation with 35mm film that I've seen usually involves a single band of density about the width of the sprocket hole flowing from each hole. So I think that it's right for the pattern that PE observes to raise additional questions. It could be that the stress on the film results in a different kind of bromide drag than one usually sees--i.e., the film is slightly creased on either side of the sprocket hole, or the sprocket holes are deformed by improper rewinding (ouch!--is the film advance ok after that?), and that produces a local agitation effect in a different pattern than the usual sort of bromide drag.

timmct · Oct 1, 2016

I think O-N-F hit it right, first time.

I think everyone else has approached the problem from another angle (their own) and provided a degree of depth where depth wasn't really needed.

But it's great to see everyone working together on all the different topics and in a way where we all appreciate the depth...it's there whenever it might be needed.

As someone who has worked as a "tech guy", it's great to see how many well informed people are ready to chime in for any issue here on APUG.

Of course, we all may have to accept that there may be something else in play that the OP hasn't sorted out on his own end...Oh well...

AgX · Oct 1, 2016

Bromide drag:

David, read my post #35 on that idea.

David A. Goldfarb · Oct 1, 2016

I seem to have missed a page of discussion on this first time around somehow and it looks like the issue was resoved before I posted.

Photo Engineer · Oct 1, 2016

I have looked at it again and again and I feel that the defects are too sharp and well defined to be bromide drag. I remember now where I saw something similar to this. When the first t-grain coatings were made in 120 format, they had similar defects due to the sharp curvature of the 120 back rollers in some cameras. The coating formula had to be revised to allow more flex in the gelatin so that grains were not cracked by turning the sharp corners.

Bromide drag is often used for similar effects by developer and pH as I mentioned here earlier. It can also be regular and symmetrical, but it is rarely, if ever, sharply defined.

PE

Mystery Tiger Striping

joseph saunders

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mshchem

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timmct

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