Mystery Film - How would you develop?

Kirks518 · Jul 13, 2014

I was given a box of stuff, and in it was some old film, both exposed and 'fresh'. The exposed film looks like it was home-loaded by the original owner. The film cartridges are all black with a small bit of masking tape with the number of exposures on them (36/36/10+). There are 3 rolls of this stuff. There are also 2 rolls of exposed color slide film (E-4 Ektachrome).

Included were some bulk film tins (empty) that are Kodak Plus-X Pan Film, and Kodak Tri-X Pan Film. An educated guess tells me that the mystery film is one of these two. However, I don't know ASA of them. Also, I have HC-110 which is in good condition, and I have an unopened bottle of TriX developer of unknown age.

So which developer would you use, and what method of processing would you use? My tap runs at about 78°F or higher (Florida in the summer).

Any help is appreciated.

Kirks518 · Jul 13, 2014

Oh, and an estimated expiration date of the film is 1974-1975, based on the 3 unopened boxes of film included in the box.

pentaxuser · Jul 13, 2014

I'd clip test a few frames based on what you think the film is + 15% time. This will hopefully give you a good idea how much time the rest of the film needs and wastes one frame - maybe if your lucky only a small part of that frame.

pentaxuser

summicron1 · Jul 13, 2014

first roll 10 minutes at 68 in d-76, 1:1.

will be close enough to judge

Kirks518 · Jul 13, 2014

If I were to do a clip test, what is the likelihood that the edge of the film will tell me what type of film it is?

Kirks518 · Jul 13, 2014

summicron1 said:
first roll 10 minutes at 68 in d-76, 1:1.

will be close enough to judge

What would be your suggested test for HC-110? I don't have D76.

Kirks518 · Jul 14, 2014

Well, I looked at developing times for both the Pan-X and the Tri-X, and decided on trying 5.25 mins with HC-110 dilution B. Using the massive developing chart on digitaltruth, it seemed that most developing times for those fall in the range of 5 minutes, and seeing how my water is warmer then 68°F, which would shorten the times, I figured I'd give it a go.

Nope.

Now as I'm a novice, I'm trying to figure out if I went too long or too short. There are a couple of discernable areas that say there are images on the film, but they are really 'washed out' (thin??), and are barely visible. The film is drying right now, but I'll see if I can scan a frame or two tomorrow. Ihave one or two more rolls from this batch, and it would be cool if I could get one/two of them developed somewhat properly.

One thing I noticed it that the areas that have an 'image' are near the first frames from the roll, probably frames 1-4, after that there is nothing. Any idea what would cause that?

There are no markings on the film edges of any kind. Does that help with identifying the film?

pentaxuser · Jul 14, 2014

Kirks518 said:
If I were to do a clip test, what is the likelihood that the edge of the film will tell me what type of film it is?

I was going to add this as one of the additional benefits but then I had a vague feeling that I had read somewhere that some film as old as mid 70s didn't have edge markings although I wonder why not. You shouldn't have to go too far into the film to get to edge markings and anyway developing a few frames as opposed to, say, one frame only will give you a better idea for changes to time

pentaxuser

dehk · Jul 14, 2014

I did a roll of old verichrome pan the other day with XTOL 1+7 lowered to 18C 2 Hours Stand came out decent.

I also had decent results with D76 with a pushed time before.

Kirks518 · Jul 14, 2014

Can you stand develop with HC-110? If so, how long would you try?

Axle · Jul 14, 2014

Kirks518 said:
Can you stand develop with HC-110? If so, how long would you try?

Sure you can! Just use a highly dilute solution of HC-110, say Dil. G, and start it at 1hr.

Kirks518 · Jul 14, 2014

I'll give that a try tonight. Thanks!

pentaxuser · Jul 14, 2014

dehk said:
I did a roll of old verichrome pan the other day with XTOL 1+7 lowered to 18C 2 Hours Stand came out decent.

I also had decent results with D76 with a pushed time before.

Interesting. Unless you used at least 800cc of liquid(100Xtol + 700 water) you managed to successfully break the so -called rule quoted in the Covington site which says that all films require a 100cc of Stock Xtol.

pentaxuser

Kirks518 · Jul 14, 2014

Ok, here are a couple of scans. There actually a lot of 'visible' images through the scanner, about 24. Seeing these, what direction would you give me for the next roll? Remember, I'm a novice, and my only developers are HC-110 and TMax (HC110 preferred). These were done at 69°F (+/- 1°) for 5 minutes 10 seconds in HC-110, water stop bath, and 5 min fixer. What would be the next experimental step?

On a side note, there are 'splotches' throughout the negatives (like in the first pic). Is that something I did during developing, or could it have to do with storage and age of the film? I did notice when I was loading the reel that it felt like the film was kind of sticking to itself as it was coming off the roll.

Thanks.

ic-racer · Jul 14, 2014

Why not just use the same exposure index and development test you would use on any 'known' film.

Kirks518 · Jul 14, 2014

Kirks518 said:
View attachment 91065 View attachment 91066 View attachment 91067 View attachment 91068 View attachment 91069

Can anyone tell me if these are over developed, or under developed? I honestly don't know.

I'm going to try another roll in a stand develop, and I'm trying to figure out the time to stand for.

MattKing · Jul 14, 2014

Kirks518 said:
Can anyone tell me if these are over developed, or under developed? I honestly don't know.

I'm going to try another roll in a stand develop, and I'm trying to figure out the time to stand for.

Over-developed negatives are quite dense.

Unfortunately, as exposed film ages, the images fade, and the fog gets thicker, so increasing development may not solve the problem.

It is clear, however, that reducing development won't solve it either.

A clip test would be really a good idea with stand.

Kirks518 · Jul 15, 2014

I just developed the third roll of this stuff (still don't know with any certainty what the film is). I did an HC-110 stand developing of 44 minutes with mild agitation and mild inversion only for the first min (30 sec each), followed by a tap water stop for 5 mins, fix for 5 min, and rinse for 5 min with a wetting agent added in the last 30 seconds. Temp was 74°F.

Same film and age as the stuff in the first post, but much better processing. A little bit of bromide drag, but not too bad. Some showed evidence of light leakage or fogging like the last one.

If anyone has any idea what school that is, it would be cool to know. I think it's a cool building. It would be even cooler to track down player number 34, as I'm pretty sure his dad shot these. Camera I believe was a Cavalier STL-1 with (possibly) a Meyer Optik Gorlitz 50mm 1.8.

aremesal · Jul 15, 2014

What about a "drop test"?

(see the picture below, click for enlarge)

Take a chronometer and a little piece of the film (A) and pour a little drop of your developer, at same temperature and dilution (just mix and place at temp. and use a drop from it), onto the emulsion side of the film. At the very instant that the drop touches the film it'll change its color to a very clearer one, start the time and look at the film (B). The drop will get darker slowly until it's totally black. You must carefully look at this colour change, at certain moment the colour of the drop is exactly the same that the colour of the surrounding area (C), you must stop the time at this precise instant, or just before the colour gets darker (D).

Now, simply divide that time in seconds by 4, and it's the correct development time in minutes for that developer, at that dilution and temperature, for that film

Example: you pour a drop of developer onto the emulsion and start counting time. It clears and then starts to darken, when you see the colour matchs the surround colour you stop the time at 28 seconds. 28 / 4 = 7 -> you must develop for 7 minutes.

Kirks518 · Jul 15, 2014

@aremesal - That's really cool! But I already went ahead and processes the third roll (see post above yours). Came out good enough.

cliveh · Jul 15, 2014

aremesal said:
What about a "drop test"?

(see the picture below, click for enlarge)

Take a chronometer and a little piece of the film (A) and pour a little drop of your developer, at same temperature and dilution (just mix and place at temp. and use a drop from it), onto the emulsion side of the film. At the very instant that the drop touches the film it'll change its color to a very clearer one, start the time and look at the film (B). The drop will get darker slowly until it's totally black. You must carefully look at this colour change, at certain moment the colour of the drop is exactly the same that the colour of the surrounding area (C), you must stop the time at this precise instant, or just before the colour gets darker (D).

Now, simply divide that time in seconds by 4, and it's the correct development time in minutes for that developer, at that dilution and temperature, for that film

View attachment 91166

Example: you pour a drop of developer onto the emulsion and start counting time. It clears and then starts to darken, when you see the colour matchs the surround colour you stop the time at 28 seconds. 28 / 4 = 7 -> you must develop for 7 minutes.

What lighting conditions do you suggest for this method?

aremesal · Jul 15, 2014

cliveh said:
What lighting conditions do you suggest for this method?

Sorry, it can be done at full light because it's just a small cut from the film, not the whole film It's just a small, exposed to the light piece cut from the film; I use the very first part of the 135 film, the part which is exposed to the sun when you put it into the camera. When you're going to load the spiral in absolute darkness cut a small piece of film and leave it out of the tank, charge the spiral as usual, close the tank and do the "drop test" with the light switched on.

It's similar to what you do to check the fixing time (immerse a piece of exposed film into the fixing bath, count the time for the piece to get transparent and the double of this time is the perfect fixing time).

Mystery Film - How would you develop?

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