Mystery 70mm film from NASA - help

[Photo Engineer]

I want you all to remember that there is no Pravda in Izvestia and no Izvestia in Pravda!

The lunar landing site can be seen with a good satellite imaging camera. The base of the lander is clearly seen. A corner reflector was left that can be targeted with a simple laser for timing experiments. Anyhow.

All early film was shipped either to Wright Patterson AFB or to the individual contractors such as NASA. Much of that imaging has been lost or destroyed. The University of Central Florida was trying to reconstruct some of this history due to the huge loss, and no one seems to know what happened to all of this material. I was charged with shipping all images from CCMTA to WPAFB monthly. That was a lot of film.

A book of the Cape with some excellent images has been published. It is "Go For Launch", and one of the authors is Art LeBrun, and APUG member. I sent Art several images as I did to the project at UCF.

In any event, The film is probably either C-22 or C-41 color negative film. Dip a piece into hot (100F) developer and see if the emulsion comes off. If not, it is C-41 but if it does, then it is C-22 film. We used C-22 film for NASA launches early on using Hulcher cameras and perfed film.

PE

 

[StoneNYC]

Photo Engineer.

I wish I had read this earlier and also wish I hadn't been on a roll with processing other film all day. I had cross processed a bunch of C-41 film in E-6 chemical with good results that day and decided I would do the same with the NASA film since it was bugging me just sitting in the fridge, and I knew if anything were on there it would still show up, even x-processed. It came out blank with no boxes/framelines of any kind, so I assume it was never exposed or rather openly exposed and so was useless. Ahh well, hey, by chance do you have info on getting or making C-22 chemical? Also I need some "agfacolor CN-17 Universal" chemical as well, can this be home made?

Thanks Photo Engineer!

 

[Photo Engineer]

They can be home made. I do not have complete formulas for either process, just bits of them.

The C-22 developer is close to C41 but uses CD3 and contains Benzyl Alcohol. IIRC, the Agfa process uses CD2. They both use Ferricyanide bleach baths. That's about it OTOMH. It would take me hours to find the actual formulas. If you wish, you might look in older patents for C22 such as Edens and Mowrey on developer stabilzers. IIRC, the entire C22 developer formula is given there.

PE

 

[Diapositivo]

The fact that you just quoted from a UFO conspiracy page completely ruined any legitimacy you did have haha.

Anyway, we are a bit off topic here, I can however send you my NASA film and maybe you can re-bleach it and discover the truth...

Be light about life guys, lets just enjoy the big picture

I agree the site is not updated and it is full of typographic mistakes, not unlike APUG .
But if you read it with a bit of attention and without prejudice you will find plenty of food for thought.
That's not the only material you find around on the matter, naturally. Tons have been written.

EDIT: I did not even notice that the site also deals with UFO. I only crossed it with regard to the Apollo hoax. I don't care what amount of bullstuff this site carries about UFO, I only care about the reasoning it makes about the Apollo thing, which you can follow yourself.

Trying to de-legitimize an argument attacking the source itself, rather than his reasoning, is a form of logical fallacy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well

I'm sorry for the OT but I couldn't resist your "Heck maybe I can find out that the moon landing was faked!" comment

Maybe if I have time I will find some more scientifically exposed theories.

 

[Prof_Pixel]

>> Maybe if I have time I will find some more scientifically exposed theories.

Like, 'The world is really flat' - after all, just look at a map - it's flat?

 

[Diapositivo]

>> Maybe if I have time I will find some more scientifically exposed theories.

Like, 'The world is really flat' - after all, just look at a map - it's flat?

How do you dare insulting me, you idiot?

 

[Prof_Pixel]

Sorry, but in my book, saying the Apolo moon landings never happened is in the same category as saying the world is flat.

 

[StoneNYC]

Ok guys let's agree to disagree, this forum and board is for film, not conspiracy theory, if you want to discuss that further please PM each other, or start a separate post discussing the legitimacy of film in history, I don't want a flame war over this and I'd like to stay on topic as "engineer" has. Thanks.


~Stone

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[Photo Engineer]

Gentlemen;

I can comment though. I was there. I saw the Saturn I liftoff and also met six of the first 7 astronauts. I saw Glenn go and met him and Grissom and others. So, there is no problem in my mind. I even talked once to Werner Von Braun. Saying that this event did not take place is denying a factual part of history for some odd purpose.

PE

 

[StoneNYC]

Thanks PE!

Also, have any suggestions for where I might find the full list of chemicals for the aforementioned films? Since you can't recall the whole thing? Though it certainly was helpful, I have another post that explains why here...

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)


~Stone

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[Diapositivo]

Gentlemen;

I can comment though. I was there. I saw the Saturn I liftoff and also met six of the first 7 astronauts. I saw Glenn go and met him and Grissom and others. So, there is no problem in my mind. I even talked once to Werner Von Braun. Saying that this event did not take place is denying a factual part of history for some odd purpose.

PE

Sorry for prolonging the OT but I think something I should add.

PE, what you call "cospirationists" do not "deny" what you call a "fact".
They point out very strange sequence of coincidence that raise doubts. NASA never answered those doubts.

They chose the silence. Actually they charged a person, a scientist, to write a work for the clarification of all points, a multi-year project it seems, and then withdrew support and financing to the project with the explanation that explaining things would just give more attention to the doubts.

If you have, as you have, a scientific cultural background that should ring some bells. Or should at least prove once more that there is a lot of propaganda in all this (probably on both sides) and not so much logic. NASA seems more interested in preserving the status quo with a majority of people convinced they went to the moon than trying to dispel all the serious and motivated doubts of the vocal minority. That would work in politics but not in science.

The most disturbing things that lead me to a healthy doubt as I repeat are:

- NASA by mistake destroyed the original TV tape;
- NASA by mistake destroyed the telemetry data;
- NASA themselves recently cancelled the new man on moon mission citing excessive radiation risks for crews.
- Certain pictures of the moon mission clearly appear as if they are tampered with.

There are a host of other "minor" elements of doubt that anybody can read about.
That said, will this lead me or other sceptical to bet their balls that man never went on the moon? No sir! But I would advice you not to bet yours

The case might be that TV tapes and flight data were destroyed due to extreme disorganization, that the new mission on the moon was cancelled to save money but they couldn't say "sorry the government changed his mind we have no (or not enough) money to go back to the moon", that the astronauts actually went on the moon instead of just orbiting somewhere but had no pictures to show so NASA showed the fake ones, etc. But all this does stink.

The second lunar mission IIRC came back without images. If the same problems had occurred during the first mission, would NASA have said "we went to the moon but have no images to show"? (put it back in the context of the politically charged space race).

All this does not prevent me from noticing that the presented pictures pose a lot of questions.

What I say is that this water is not clean and I am not thirsty enough to drink it as it is.

When China goes to the moon and brings back some definitive proof of Apollo project presence I will be very glad to dispel my doubts! At the moment, I am not a believer. A "sceptic" is somebody who is "dubious" about something that other people judge "certain". Not somebody who is certain of the contrary!

What outrages some people is that some other people does not have the same certitudes! It's like a religion! (talking about religion, why Aldrin and others always refuse to just swear on the bible that they went to the moon? The president of the US swears on the bible when he takes office. You must swear on the bible, I think, when you witness in a trial. Nothing that make people lose their face. Why not just say: "I swear I did it?" I would swear "no problem" if I did it).

The truth can be in some grey middle. For instance the US might have fabricated the proof about Apollo 11 but might have managed to go to the moon with, say, the last Apollo mission. It's not just black or white.

It's a bit like Pearl Harbour. People repeat the story of the "surprise attack". Careful and patient "cospirationist" work by serious historians demonstrated that the US knew the secret codes of the Japanese, decrypted them, knew exactly about the attack, and "chose to be surprised". This does not intend to negate that the Japanese ever made a surprise attack on Pearl Harbour!

It is important to critically examine history without stopping at the received propaganda.

 

[StoneNYC]

Diopositivo, I've kindly asked that if you want to continue, that you PM the person or create a new topic, this isn't hard to do, please stop spamming my page with info that is off topic. Thanks.


~Stone

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[Photo Engineer]

Stone;

For C-22 you will need:

Developer:
CD-3
Hydroxylamine Sulfate
Sodium Carbonate
Potassium Iodide
Sodium Bromide
Benzyl Alcohol

Hardening Stop
Acetic Acid
Sodium Acetate
Potassium Alum

Bleach:
Potassium Ferricyanide
Sodium Bromide
Kodalk

Fix:
Sodium Thiosulfate
Sodium Sulfite
Borax

Stabilizer:
Photo Flo
Formaldehyde 37%

The list for Agfa Color is quite similar but they did not use Benzyl Alcohol and did use a different developing agent.

PE

 

[StoneNYC]

OMG thank you PE this is extensive and AWESOME!!!

I should make large batches and sell it on eBay at an exorbitant price


~Stone

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[Photo Engineer]

I'll try to find the exact formulas if I have them here. I know that they are in the patent.

PE

 

[StoneNYC]

Oh yea I guess that would be part of public record, but researching patents is not my strong suit, now lets see if I can find all the chemicals and that they are still legally able to obtain them all.


~Stone

http://www.stonenyc.com
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[Photo Engineer]

All of the above are legally obtainable. The Photographers Formulary has all of them.

PE

 

[sepiareverb]

Wow! I can't wait to see what's on that film! Even if it's some kids birthday party...

 

[MattKing]

Wow! I can't wait to see what's on that film! Even if it's some kids birthday party...

On the moon?

 

[StoneNYC]

Lol, gotta read the posts, sadly nothing was on it ... I do want to try one other thing but basically I've accepted the defeat...


~Stone

http://www.stonenyc.com
http://stonenyc.tumblr.com
http://www.modelmayhem.com/stonenyc
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