My negs look really dull

[lcooper]

Hello. I am new to B&W, using a Mamiya RB67 and a variety of film, including Neopan 400, Ilford HP 400. When I scan my negs, they look quite dull and flat, and need some levels or curves adj. to get them looking decent. There are no blown highlights or black areas with no detail, for the most part.
I develop with 1:1 D76, and throw away after one use, using a Patterson tank, for the suggested time according to temp., and use Ilford fixer and after washing, photoflo.
I realize my exposures are lacking to begin with, though I do bracket and take notes so I can figure out what works best under any given situation.
Perhaps I am not sure of what to expect of a negative. I tend to shoot in the afternoon in Florida, under cloud cover that may render my subject a little flat, or perhaps the art is in getting a good image on the enlarger after the fact?
Any input or thought appreciated.
Thanks

 

[Bob F.]

If you have shadow detail where you want it, that suggests your exposure is about right. If you also have highlight detail then that suggests that your development is about right. But that is only what your scanner says... Scanning really tells you little directly about how a negative will print on photo paper 'cos they are very different animals.

Try making "proper" contact sheets from the negatives. That will give you a much better idea about how your shadow and highlight details are when it comes to traditional printing with the enlarger.

Certainly, some work on the enlarger is usually required to get things how you want them as a rule (and in my case, usually a lot of work!).

Cheers, Bob.

 

[srs5694]

I've also found that scanner software settings can make a dramatic difference in how the scans look. (I use VueScan on Linux, FWIW.) As Bob says, making wet darkroom prints is a better way to judge the negative -- at least, assuming that's what you intend to do in the long run. If you only want to scan the negatives, then of course exposing and developing to get good scans should be your goal.

 

[keithwms]

lcooper, I kinda doubt you are doing anything wrong, your film/developer combos sound quite standard. I doubt this is an issue of scene contrast. And I agree that if darkroom contacts look good without any major grade changes then you're good to go.

Now, even if your negs are optimal, when you scan, you'll probably need to apply some levels adjustment. When you scan, do you see an option to do levels adjustment? Note that this is different from curving, which is what you'd do to raise/lower particular tonal values. Levels adjustments set the high and low levels and the midpoint; typically, in your scan software you see a graph and you have three sliders beneath it, and you move those to set your levels. You might read up on this; some useful terminology that comes up in this contaxt is the white point, the black point, and the grey point. The software I use automatically determines levels, but I usually tweak them according to how I plan to print. And I do my curving after I get a good scan with nothing blacked or whited out. No reason to clip your neg in the scan.

I'll just add that if you do plan to scan routinely, rather than do darkroom prints, then you might consider some other film and developer options. Chromogenics are quite nice for scanning, and staining developers as well. Most conventional film/developer combos just don't scan particularly well, and <beginning of mini-rant> some people make harsh judgements about the capabilities of film based on their inability to execute a good scan <end of mini-rant>...

Now, you may well eventually conclude that you'd get more suitable density in your negs by rating them a half stop or so slower box speed, but still, at box speed and with standard development, you should get okay negs.

 

[naeroscatu]

as said previously if your exposure is correct i.e. if you have good detail in shadows and highlights are not blocked then you are somehow trying to replicate wet darkroom processes with PS (levels and curves) digital-room. Results will not be identical, they cannot be... these are two different things. You can get acceptable results in post scan processing though.

 

[Sparky]

I find to get even CLOSE at ALL to what a print gives me I have to do some pretty far out acrobatics with curves in photoshop. Just make a print. The computer has no idea how to interpret your neg.

 

[luvmydogs]

So glad to read this. I have run into the same problem in the past - my negs look good but scanned they look underexposed and lacking in contrast. I only scan to get an idea of what the neg looks like, and for the good stuff, do plan on printing them using traditional darkroom processes.

 

[lcooper]

Thanks for the responses. I think I worded by question poorly and made it look like I was comparing my scanner to the enlarger. Anyway, I have been doing lots of reading on the zone system, shot the same low contrast scene and over developed the film 2 stops. There was much more contrast and sparkle. Seems I was photographing a scene with 3-4 zones, and I needed to expand this to 5. It worked. Excited about exploring this more.