My Lucky Day-100' roll of Mystery film....

Most cine film from Kodak is labeled Eastman. The 18 could be the slit number from the master roll, unless they coded it with the little markings instead. I haven't seen any recent cinema film that had the ink printing on the edges, just old stuff so I'm going to guess it's really old. Can you match up any of the hieroglyphics with this:

http://historicphotoarchive.com/f1/16ekcode.html

Like was mentioned a few posts back, you should start by developing short strips pulled out of the loader and loaded onto a developing reel (in the dark!) until the edge markings are decently dark. Once you've done that you've gotten at least in the ballpark of proper development, then you can try getting into the ballpark of exposure by running some through a camera. A lot of cine film people play with is not camera film but various intermediate or lab stocks, which have insanely low speeds, so I'd set up on a tripod on a bright day outside and bracket up from ISO 1 in 1 stop increments using shutter speed. (You may need to back-calculate the ISO 1 starting point if your meter doesn't go that low...)

Duncan

Hey Greg,

Eastman made "Safety" film as early as 1910!!--but not for 35mm size you have. Eastman was also labeling certain of their motion film "Eastman" until recently (relative term). The 35mm Tri-acetate safety film was introduced in 1948 and became industry standard by the mid-50's. The S indicates indicates Safety Manufactured out of Rochester- or post 1950; any plant. The Circle Square Date code indicates a1922, 1942 or 1962 year manufacture. In the event you are actually seeing Square Circle, then the dates could be '25, '45 or '65.
Since you burn tested this film and found it to be Acetate, I'm inclined to think this is post 1952 film.
I also found a link to Eastman 5062 (ignoring the A4 as a date call) on the web which gave it a Cross reference of Kodak Plus-X Pan code name Kodak PX B/W film.

So my first inclination based on all the stuff I did not know before is that this could still be Aerial Film from wwII...maybe.. as Plus-X was introduced in 1941 and regular cine was not at 18 speed for general use. Think about altitude and sun and brightness control. at 10,000 feet on a sunny day you'd need some Slow film...

Hope that helps.

Mike

Hi Mike,

I agree with most of what you think.. The "Eastman 18" I referred to earlier is actually Eastman "dividing line 8" which based on the spacing of the line after the "Eastman" type to the number 8 defines the possible year. Being that it is not a nitrate film, because it has the word "S' Afety" then it is post 1952 (actually 1948-1952 for the safety conversion).

and the Edge Coding is "Square" "Circle"...so that matches the 20 year film dates are 1925,1945, or 1965

So I am guessing now...the film because it is not a Nitrate base, but rather an Acetate Base, is maybe 1948, 1958? maybe 1968...

When was 35mm film produced for Cine use ? after what date.

I am thinking commercially produced film for photography has a Kodak name on it.

Eastman, for Film or Television.

I am going to try to contact the seller and see what they say...

Greg

Since it's not brittle It must be tri-acetate which makes it post '48. With this knowledge the Date code must refer to 1962.

show me how you figured the 1962...

If it's color then the Eastmancolor system for 35mm was introduced in 1950. B/W could go way way back.

Greg Heath said:

I just sent Brian Pritchard an email at his website. I just wonder what it is...
I tried to burn the emulsion this morning with a match, because some of the older film emulsions were flammable, so it did not burn hardly at all. So I know it's not super old. I'm thinking something from the fifties ? When did manufacturers start printing the type of film on the sides of the film ?
A friend told me it might be military film. Possibly gun camera film. i dunno. I just want it to work.

Click to expand...

Greg,

Load up 15 frames and shoot the same scene at 6, 12, 25, 50, 100. Develop normally. Judge at what speed you get adequate shadow detail. Now shoot a whole roll at that speed, cut it in thirds and develop one third at a time, adjusting with longer or shorter developing time to get normal contrast.

Now you have a baseline to work from. Without the speed test you will keep guessing forever. This way you'll know what speed it is.

- Thomas

Greg, that was my bad I meant 1965. Sorry

And thomas just told you what I said yesterday... now thats two of us.. go profile that stuff.



Mike

Greg Heath said:

show me how you figured the 1962...

Click to expand...

I was wrong

http://www.film-center.com/dates.html

Thanks Tom and Mike. I had already shot it at 50, so off to the darkroom.

Good Luck my winged friend!

My personal recommendation is to dilute and run long on the developer.



Mike

I'd shoot 6 or 12. I have old bulk rolls of Super XX and HP3 from 1967 and 1963 and unless I shoot at those numbers I do not get much image at all, and lucky for me, not too much fog.

Here's a method I use to get a ballpark development time for unknown film...

Take a 6 inch strip of film and expose it to full light. Fill a beaker with developer. Suspend the strip into the beaker by a "paper clip bridge" and immerse a half-inch or so into the developer. Every two minutes slide the film another half inch into the developer. This will make stripes 2 minutes apart. When the first stripe is fully black, pull the film out and fix it, then wash and dry.

Now hold the film to strong light and the stripe you can barely see through represents your starting time.

If you want more accuracy, do it for 30 second stripes.

frobozz said:

Most cine film from Kodak is labeled Eastman. The 18 could be the slit number from the master roll, unless they coded it with the little markings instead.
Duncan

Click to expand...

Yes, you are correct on that assumption, Kodak 35mm film made in the 20th century for Motion picture use was invariable edge printed EASTMAN. (and came in a Can with an EASTMAN label) The Number after Eastman was the strip number, which they tracked on the 400ft and above rolls by writing or labeling the can. SO If A can had a 24 label on the edge the film would say EASTMAN 24 zzz S'AFETY FILM. With the zzz being a code made up of Circles, squares, triangle, and Vertical lines in what they tried to keep as a secret code repeating every 20 years. There was also another code that looked like |+| with some dots beside the bars which has never been confirmed but some have speculated represented the month or week of manufacture.

Arround 2000 they switched all the movie film to the "KeyKode" bar code system for editing numbers. That system originally had a two Letter Code like KA to undiate the year, although they revised it to include the actual year later. The KeyKode starts with two letters that indicate the film type. when they started the first letter was E (for eastman) but they used all 26 posible codes and current products start with K. (the Filmotec Orwo B&W films also use this system with the code ON for Orwo N74 and OU for Orwo UN54)

grebmohr said:

If it's color then the Eastmancolor system for 35mm was introduced in 1950. B/W could go way way back.

Click to expand...

Yes but EASTMAN COLOR negative uses the Infamous REM-JET backing and like all colour negative film has a tan colour on the top emuslion layer.

Worker 11811 said:

Just take a strip of film, a foot or two long, and develop it without exposing it to any light.

You should be able to see the edge markings which will tell you what the film is without a doubt.

Click to expand...

IIRC, the edge markings are repeated every 18 inches. Therefore a length of 2 feet is really the shortest length to be tested. There is a website that tells how to "decode" the edge markings and even determine when the film was manufactured.

Not all Eastman color negative films use a rem jet coating.

Gerald C Koch said:

IIRC, the edge markings are repeated every 18 inches. Therefore a length of 2 feet is really the shortest length to be tested. There is a website that tells how to "decode" the edge markings and even determine when the film was manufactured.

Click to expand...

The original poster did find the relevant markings, so he just needs to interpret them. The only sign of the TYPE of film is the mysterious "A" mark in the ink footage numbers.


just to keep it together, the list for CURRENT style markings is here

http://motion.kodak.com/motion/Tools/Post_Production/Keykode/id.htm

Which shows Plus-x Negative 5231 as code KH and Double-X 5222 as KE

the list of date codes for KeyKode film since 1989 is on that page.. one list of the list of date codes for Older film is

http://www.film-center.com/dates.html

A more official version should be at

http://www.kodak.com/US/plugins/acrobat/en/motion/support/datecode.pdf

other lists are at

http://www.brianpritchard.com/Date Codes.htm
http://www.amianet.org/resources/guides/date_code.pdf

The last link is one of the more complete lists

It is 1965 Eastman Cine film... Plus-X asa 125.

I wrote to a gentelman in France who told me based on the photos and the numbers what it was. So I have about 4 rolls left.
It is film that is as old as me, and both of us still work... I learned a lot. Thanks to all those who replied. Fascinating stuff.

Greg

Greg did you develop your last test (at 50ASA)? Any results to show?

5231?