My local camera shop, business booming. Anyone else?

[jtk]

For some sort of context, years ago I sold commercial photo proceeding machinery and set up 3 one hour photo labs in two years. The bottom benchmark for a viable minilab sales prospect was 25 rolls/day and indication of strong success was around 100/day...less didn't justify a full time employee.

 

[Luckless]

Yes, but they're not doing that...are they? Their financial managers don 't want more film business.

No, they're currently going with the far cheaper option of focusing on social media instead, and making a reasonably good effect with it. If they decide to step up further from that, then going after product placements would be the next logical offering rather than commercials or magazine ads.

 

[Team ADOX]

I've posted before in other threads but I thought I'd post a dedicated thread. Does anyone else have good news from their local camera shop or local scene?

Our distribution colleagues from Fotoimpex see significantly increasing demand for years. The sales in our "brick-and-mortar" store in the center of Berlin are growing in double-digit % p.a.
The Fotoimpex film processing business is also strongly increasing. So much that we have to increase our capacity massively. New top-of-the-line processing machines are already bought and building our new lab space is progressing.

To quote Ed Hurley from Eastman Kodak (responsible there for the film production): "The future for film is bright".
We can completely agree.
And we know from our permanent talks to all other major players in the film industry that they also share that assessment.

ADOX - Innovation In Analog Photography.

 

[Team ADOX]

my local shop closed end of last year; the other one doesn't sell film of any kind.

You are located in Cologne?
Foto Gregor in the inner city (Neumarkt) has a very good selection of films, and also an in-house RA-4 printing lab.

ADOX - Innovation In Analog Photography.

 

[Team ADOX]

Camera shops don't close just because of no film.

That is correct.
Those shops with offerings not only in the digital imaging field, but also film and in-house lab with film processing and prints for film and digital shooters, have performed mostly much better in the last 3-4 years than the digital-only shops.
The digital-only shops have been hit very hard by the collapse in digital camera sales in the last 10 years. During the last decade sales of digital cameras imploded by 88%.
And this massive decline is still in full swing, with no end in sight.
The data is published every month. You find it on the CIPA page:
http://cipa.jp/stats/dc_e.html
http://cipa.jp/stats/dc-2016_e.html

We from ADOX and Fotoimpex are quite happy working in the growing traditional film photography market.
And not in the collapsing digital camera market.

ADOX - Innovation In Analog Photography.

 

[Team ADOX]

I don't think Kodak or Fuji do any significant advertising anywhere...if you think otherwise it would be easy for you to share right here, on Photrio.

Fuji and Kodak are doing lots of advertising for their film products. Other members have already given you several very good examples, see the postings above. Like the instagram pages of Kodak. They are also active on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/kodakprofessional

Fujifilm is also active on instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/fujifilm_profilm
They are doing there also regularly their "Film Friday" competition in which you can win free film.
Fujifilm has also started a film photography webpage for starters in film photography:
https://www.ishootfujifilm.com/

But that is their smallest marketing project: For their instax film products you will find dozens of Fujifilm social media pages because all local Fujifilm operations run their own marketing, perfectly fitted for the special needs of the local markets: In some countries they are using TV commercials for their numerous Instax film products (e.g. in Asia). Here in Germany they are advertising in online photo magazines and photo print magazines. And they have opened their "Fujifilm Wondershop Stores" in many countries, selling their photo products in these brick-and-mortar stores. These stores are doing local marketing.

Social media is currently the most effective way for marketing. We can confirm that from our own experience. Therefore we have increased our activities there, too:
https://www.facebook.com/FOTOIMPEX/
https://www.instagram.com/fotoimpex/
https://www.instagram.com/ADOXPHOTO/
https://www.facebook.com/ADOXPHOTO/

"Kodak" and Fuji are simply making a little money while backing quietly away from film.

Neither Kodak nor Fujifilm are going away from film. Not at all. Just the opposite is right: Both are investing in film. In new production capacities and products.
Kodak is currently investing in new converting capacities (we have a whole thread here in this subforum about that topic, please have a look at it). And they are investing in re-introduced film products, like TMZ and Ektachrome. They are also investing in new labs for cinema film.
Fujifilm has invested like no other film manufacturer: They have made their instax instant film line to the most successful photo products at all in the photo market.
With this product line they have blown all digital manufacturers "out of the water" concerning sales volume: In their last fiscal year they have produced more than 10 million instax cameras. So they have produced more film cameras than Canon, Nikon, Sony, Olympus, Panasonic, Fujifilm, Pentax, Sigma, Hasselblad, Phase One have produced together digital ILC cameras! Sales of ILCs of all these digital camera manufacturers were only 8,2 million cameras.
And whereas digital camera sales are massively declining, instax sales are increasing.
Of course not only the sales of instax cameras, but also instax film. Dozens of millions of instax film packs are sold p.a. Fujifilm is running their lines in 3 shifts per day to keep up with demand.
Furthermore Fujifilm is bringing Acros back, also a big investment and a clear commitment to film.

ADOX - Innovation In Analog Photography.

 

[jtk]

No, they're currently going with the far cheaper option of focusing on social media instead, and making a reasonably good effect with it. If they decide to step up further from that, then going after product placements would be the next logical offering rather than commercials or magazine ads.

If social media is used it'd be great to see examples. Every teen does social media, which means they operate a digital camera (phone).

 

[jtk]

Fuji and Kodak are doing lots of advertising for their film products. Other members have already given you several very good examples, see the postings above. Like the instagram pages of Kodak. They are also active on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/kodakprofessional

Fujifilm is also active on instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/fujifilm_profilm
They are doing there also regularly their "Film Friday" competition in which you can win free film.
Fujifilm has also started a film photography webpage for starters in film photography:
https://www.ishootfujifilm.com/

But that is their smallest marketing project: For their instax film products you will find dozens of Fujifilm social media pages because all local Fujifilm operations run their own marketing, perfectly fitted for the special needs of the local markets: In some countries they are using TV commercials for their numerous Instax film products (e.g. in Asia). Here in Germany they are advertising in online photo magazines and photo print magazines. And they have opened their "Fujifilm Wondershop Stores" in many countries, selling their photo products in these brick-and-mortar stores. These stores are doing local marketing.

Social media is currently the most effective way for marketing. We can confirm that from our own experience. Therefore we have increased our activities there, too:
https://www.facebook.com/FOTOIMPEX/
https://www.instagram.com/fotoimpex/
https://www.instagram.com/ADOXPHOTO/
https://www.facebook.com/ADOXPHOTO/

'Fujifilm has invested like no other film manufacturer: They have made their instax instant film line to the most successful photo products at all in the photo market."

Neither Kodak nor Fujifilm are going away from film. Not at all. Just the opposite is right: Both are investing in film. In new production capacities and products.
Kodak is currently investing in new converting capacities (we have a whole thread here in this subforum about that topic, please have a look at it). And they are investing in re-introduced film products, like TMZ and Ektachrome. They are also investing in new labs for cinema film.
Fujifilm has invested like no other film manufacturer: They have made their instax instant film line to the most successful photo products at all in the photo market.
With this product line they have blown all digital manufacturers "out of the water" concerning sales volume: In their last fiscal year they have produced more than 10 million instax cameras. So they have produced more film cameras than Canon, Nikon, Sony, Olympus, Panasonic, Fujifilm, Pentax, Sigma, Hasselblad, Phase One have produced together digital ILC cameras! Sales of ILCs of all these digital camera manufacturers were only 8,2 million cameras.
And whereas digital camera sales are massively declining, instax sales are increasing.
Of course not only the sales of instax cameras, but also instax film. Dozens of millions of instax film packs are sold p.a. Fujifilm is running their lines in 3 shifts per day to keep up with demand.
Furthermore Fujifilm is bringing Acros back, also a big investment and a clear commitment to film.

ADOX - Innovation In Analog Photography.

Instax is a fabulous product...however it's not film, it's very low quality (fwiw) and its wildly expensive-per-shot. If kids knew how to plug their phones into their desktop printers they'd prefer that to Instax because a) bigger prints b) far less expensive c) far better quality even with cheapest inkjet printers.

Instax tells an important story: people do want prints without the hassle and expense of dealing with stores . ADOX's totally unrelated response seems to be that it's making big investments on the basis of a product they cannot make. That's sad because ADOX actually does make excellent film that deserves better marketing. Fujifilm got out of its best (imo) film products several years ago and is obviously pursuing bigger yen with very expensive and excellent digicams.

If a competent photo marketing company revived the virtually perfect Polaroid 52 and 55 PN I'd return to some large format photography.

Camera purchase comparisons (digital Vs film) tell the big story: virtually nobody makes a film camera in modern times...and virtually nobody wants to CLA their old film cameras (that's why I have two old Pentax...just in case I want to play with my Nikor reels and Nikon scanner.

 

[jtk]

ADOX seems to be betting the corporate farm on Luton Camera Repair Services.

 

[AgX]

Instax is a fabulous product...however it's not film.

I subsume it under film. And that is the standard way at photo engineering. Interesting that you take a different stand.

 

[jtk]

"Kendall Jenner and Chris Hemsworth"... never heard these names before, but that is why I am on Apug.

Google them. I wonder how much ADOX film they use? And what kind of photos they make. Keep them away from New Mexico, please.

 

[jtk]

I subsume it under film. And that is the standard way at photo engineering. Interesting that you take a different stand.

Don't think I'm "taking a stand." I live in a small city (1mm) that reportedly has the second highest percent of PhD engineers in the US. I joined a film-shooter's Meetup only to learn that only three of the members (one was me) actually shoot film and two (who work in an excellent serious photo lab), dropped out, evidently preferring to make images digitally and with phones. And there's a brilliant child who shoots Instax when her family is willing to pay for it.

We have one remaining camera store that keeps very little film...prospers by selling old cameras on Ebay.

LOTS of photography in our city: Excellent long-established camera club https://enchantedlens.org/

 

[Luckless]

If social media is used it'd be great to see examples. Every teen does social media, which means they operate a digital camera (phone).

Do you mean something like this:
https://twitter.com/hashtag/ilfordphoto?src=hashtag_click
?

Film based photography might not be a massive part of social media, but it isn't exactly a massive part of the world in general... This doesn't mean it isn't a notable part of the world or social media however.

 

[BradS]

don't feed the troll.

 

[jtk]

Do you mean something like this:
https://twitter.com/hashtag/ilfordphoto?src=hashtag_click
?

Film based photography might not be a massive part of social media, but it isn't exactly a massive part of the world in general... This doesn't mean it isn't a notable part of the world or social media however.

Excellent link ! Film is a "notable part" of course. The OT has to do with format size.

 

[AgX]

Do you mean something like this:
https://twitter.com/hashtag/ilfordphoto?src=hashtag_click
?

Film based photography might not be a massive part of social media, but it isn't exactly a massive part of the world in general... This doesn't mean it isn't a notable part of the world or social media however.

But having a Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter accoun, or even just a respective hashtag makes them just one out of hundredthousands, you cannot compare that to late major-magazine or billboard advertizing. With social media it only gets interesting when topics are coupled to personalized advertizing or when those people with a flu come into.

 

[Team ADOX]

If social media is used it'd be great to see examples.

Several other members have already given you the examples. But once again:
https://twitter.com/KodakProFilmBiz
https://www.facebook.com/kodakprofessional
https://www.instagram.com/kodak/
https://www.instagram.com/kodakprofessional/
https://www.instagram.com/kodakprofessional_europe/
Please take time and have a detailed look. By these channels Kodak is getting in contact with more than currently 700,000 customers, and they win a four-digit number every day.

Polaroid Originals:
https://www.instagram.com/polaroidoriginals/
and Ilford Photo
https://www.facebook.com/IlfordPhoto/
https://www.instagram.com/ilfordphoto/
https://www.youtube.com/user/HarmanTL
are further examples of very successful film marketing via social media.

ADOX - Innovation In Analog Photography

 

[Luckless]

But having a Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter accoun, or even just a respective hashtag makes them just one out of hundredthousands, you cannot compare that to late major-magazine or billboard advertizing. With social media it only gets interesting when topics are coupled to personalized advertizing or when those people with a flu come into.

Of course it can't compare to major magazines or billboard ad campaigns... Modern social media is more trackable, typically shows far more impact for a fraction of the price, and if done well will have your customers spread it for you free of charge...

 

[Sirius Glass]

Someone is trolling down the river ...

 

[Team ADOX]

Instax is a fabulous product...however it's not film,

With all respect, but unfortunately you don't know the product at all. Of course instax instant film is a real film product. The same is valid for Polaroid Originals instant films.
All these instant films have as the main, core element negative film. It cannot work at all without it! The film is absolutely essential!
Instant films are the most complex, complicated and sophisticated film products at all on the film market! After exposing an instant film about 50 (!!) chemical processes start running around the negative film. Some have to work at the same time simultaneously, and the other in a precise row one after the other. All that complex film chemistry is really more than "rocket-science".
The negative film which is used is made with the same machines as standard negative films: Same emulsion machinery and same coating machinery.
Therefore instant films can only be made by film manufacturers! And by no one else!
Neither an (inkjet) paper manufacturer nor a digital camera manufacturer will ever be able to make silver-halide based instant film like Fujifilm instax or Polaroid Originals.

it's very low quality (fwiw) and its wildly expensive-per-shot.

That is your personal opinion. Fine. But more than 40 million users worldwide think otherwise and like and use this product. And the number of users is increasing. Meanwhile for even 16 years without interruption, by the way.

And our investments are not based at all on Instax sales. Our investments are based on years of market research, customer feedback, and our own sales data. Sales data of the products we have a focus on (Instant film is not our focus. It would destroy our company if we would get in competition with Fujifilm and Polaroid Originals).
We of course know our numbers. And because of that we are investing in silver-halide products.

Fujifilm is obviously pursuing bigger yen with very expensive and excellent digicams.

No, the opposite is true: Fujifilm is making 2x more money with their silver-halide products than with their digital cameras. Digital Imaging is a niche product for them. Only about 5% of the company's revenue is from Digital Imaging (photo).

Camera purchase comparisons (digital Vs film) tell the big story: virtually nobody makes a film camera in modern times...and virtually nobody wants to CLA their old film cameras (that's why I have two old Pentax...just in case I want to play with my Nikor reels and Nikon scanner.

In 2019 14,8 million digital cameras were sold, and about a bit less than 11 million film cameras. The sales of digital camera are declining, the sales of film cameras are increasing.
That are the current facts.
The demand for used film cameras is strongly increasing. So strong, that lots of film cameras have now surpassed their former price new.
Facts are also that the camera repair shops see huge increasing demand for CLAs and repair of film cameras. The repair technicians have more work than ever and are so busy that you often have to wait months before you get your repaired camera back.

ADOX - Innovation In Analog Photography

 

[Sirius Glass]

With all respect, but unfortunately you don't know the product at all. Of course instax instant film is a real film product. The same is valid for Polaroid Originals instant films.
All these instant films have as the main, core element negative film. It cannot work at all without it! The film is absolutely essential!
Instant films are the most complex, complicated and sophisticated film products at all on the film market! After exposing an instant film about 50 (!!) chemical processes start running around the negative film. Some have to work at the same time simultaneously, and the other in a precise row one after the other. All that complex film chemistry is really more than "rocket-science".
The negative film which is used is made with the same machines as standard negative films: Same emulsion machinery and same coating machinery.
Therefore instant films can only be made by film manufacturers! And by no one else!
Neither an (inkjet) paper manufacturer nor a digital camera manufacturer will ever be able to make silver-halide based instant film like Fujifilm instax or Polaroid Originals.



That is your personal opinion. Fine. But more than 40 million users worldwide think otherwise and like and use this product. And the number of users is increasing. Meanwhile for even 16 years without interruption, by the way.

And our investments are not based at all on Instax sales. Our investments are based on years of market research, customer feedback, and our own sales data. Sales data of the products we have a focus on (Instant film is not our focus. It would destroy our company if we would get in competition with Fujifilm and Polaroid Originals).
We of course know our numbers. And because of that we are investing in silver-halide products.



No, the opposite is true: Fujifilm is making 2x more money with their silver-halide products than with their digital cameras. Digital Imaging is a niche product for them. Only about 5% of the company's revenue is from Digital Imaging (photo).



In 2019 14,8 million digital cameras were sold, and about a bit less than 11 million film cameras. The sales of digital camera are declining, the sales of film cameras are increasing.
That are the current facts.
The demand for used film cameras is strongly increasing. So strong, that lots of film cameras have now surpassed their former price new.
Facts are also that the camera repair shops see huge increasing demand for CLAs and repair of film cameras. The repair technicians have more work than ever and are so busy that you often have to wait months before you get your repaired camera back.

ADOX - Innovation In Analog Photography

Team ADOX, many of his opinions are based on the coffee he had for breakfast on any given day.

​

 

[Kodachromeguy]

"Kodak" and Fuji are simply making a little money while backing quietly away from film.

That makes no sense. Where do you invent this stuff? And why? Both companies have introduced new or reintroduced old films.

 

[jtk]

That makes no sense. Where do you invent this stuff? And why? Both companies have introduced new or reintroduced old films.

Fuji has stopped selling 3-packs of 120 (if Photrio is to be believed) ...I used to buy 5 packs: actual photographers used a lot of it. Kodak is still blowing smoke about "future" 120...and Kodak sheet film is too expensive for anybody but orthodontists. See my OT .

I'll jump on the bandwagon for film when KODAK starts delivering Kodachrome....and believes enough in it to commit to their own E6 processing.

I've spent the last four days inkjet printing 4X66 ...heavy labor...six sets of files from 30+ years of photos made by my family. A sort of Valentine. About half were sent to me by email over time since 1990...also B&W by my mother as well as ansco chromes she processed in her home's laundry room as a teen...as well as Kodachromes I digitized.

As for CLA...very expensive...and what kind of young person does that? Maybe that's a future for Syrian refugees?

 

[foc]

The success of Instax has reignited the consumer's desire to have a physical print in their hand.
From my own experience, the sale of prints (RA4) has increased but the quantities printed per order have fallen (sounds like a paradox) but it really means that more consumers are now printing photos but are very selective in the quantity and what they print. They are also selecting a bigger range of print sizes.
I have noticed that the minority of consumers in my minilab/shop are binge printing (100 - 300 prints) and the majority are being very selective (8-20 prints). Price is not as sensitive an issue as it once was. Large size prints are on the increase.
My photo albums sales have increased by 450% but it's not the figure that is important, it's the fact that people now want to store and keep safe their prints. 75% of our album sales are online.
I have posted before about my film processing and the increase in volume and it hasn't eased off. Even the postal delivery person asked what all the packages being delivered were.
I am optimistic for the future of film and prints.

 

[jtk]

Footing the bill for a few pilot episodes on stuff headed for one of the TV Streaming Services where the main character happens to use film in a modern setting would probably net them better return for reminding people that "Film isn't dead..." than any magazine ad campaign could.

Yes, but they're not doing that...are they? Their financial managers don 't want more film business.