My Harman Titan 4x5 came today!

[Ces1um]

Recently @rpavich posted a review and experiences with his newly acquired Ilford Obscura camera and his foray into pinhole photography. This thread is located here:

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...t-in-the-mean-time.156101/page-2#post-2028874

I thought it would be fun to do the same using my newly acquired Harman Titan 4x5 pinhole so people could see the experiences I'm having with it.

To begin with, I ordered it directly from Mike Walker at Walker cameras and imported it into Canada. Mike is very knowledgeable and guided me through the process. There was a Christmas special where if you ordered the camera you got a film holder with it for free (more on these later). I purchased a second one of these along with the 150mm cone to complement the camera and the 72mm wide angle cone.

I received it after 9 working days from the UK, which frankly I think was quite quick. After opening it, my impressions of the camera is one of a very robustly constructed piece of equipment. I can't say the same for the film holders.

Having never loaded 4x5 film into a film holder before I got up in the middle of the night and loaded one holder in total darkness in my washroom. After watching a few youtube videos this was very easily accomplished. Here's where I ran into the first issue with the film holder. One dark slide went back in perfectly, the second would not. I'm sure I'll have a minor light leak- I was able to get it down eventually but I had to turn the light on to see what was the matter. I chalked this one up to it being brand new and quite stiff. Pushing the dark slides in is a very deliberate action.

After loading two sheets of film and waiting for dawn, I decided to go out for a hike and set up for my first shot. I had a fully charged iPod using pinhole assist when I left but the cold temperatures sapped the battery down to 20% within 5 minutes of being outdoors. Good thing I got my reading. It was a one second exposure. Removed the dark slide, popped off the cap and counted out a second, then replaced the cap. This is when I realized that you really need to watch how you put that cone onto the camera. The strap retaining the lens cap should be below the pinhole and not above it. I'm sure I'll have that strap show up in the photo. Then I decided to change cones and took another reading. Just realized now that I didn't change the setting for the 150mm cone so my aperture is off and my timing is blown. Darn. Anyways- this time it wanted a 1.3 second exposure. I should have just counted it out and dawdled a bit when putting on the lens cap but I wanted to try the timer feature on the app. This was stupid of me. Concentrating on the screen I pulled off the lens cap and probably kept my hand within the field of view of the pinhole. Darn again. Putting that second dark slide back in was very very problematic. At first I thought it was due to the temperature extremes outdoors (-15C today). When I got home I pulled out my spare film holder to take a closer look... This is a good time to also point out I forgot to overexpose the shot by a stop to help make the snow look white and not neutral grey. Damn I'm bad at this.

So the plastic caps that mount on top of the dark slide are warped in both of them. They are warped in the same direction so when they're both unexposed side out all is pretty good. If you flip one of them over though it won't go down. There has been some noticeable rubbing on the divider and one side of the plastic outer frame has slightly cracked apart at the seam. I think filing down the rubbing areas may solve this issue, but it's not one I had expected. Lesson learned. Cheaper film holders are cheap for a reason.

I'll be developing the film this afternoon and attempting to scan it to show my results for the sake of showing my learning experiences. I also just realized my scanner won't scan 4x5 and I'll have to stitch the photo together. Oh joy, oh bliss.

Overall though the camera seems brilliant. It's certainly very solid and the entire foray into both large format and pinhole has been fun. I have no muscle memory for this and I'm out of my element, which frankly is quite fun. These mistakes I'm making will help me improve and I've learned a considerable amount after just two photographs.

 

[rpavich]

Thanks for taking the time to do this...it was interesting and informative.

 

[DWThomas]

Excellent -- you're off and running! Assuming it takes a standard 4x5 holder (99.9999% likely!) they aren't too difficult to come across used at "reasonable" prices. It's holders for my 8x10 that caused me to gasp a little.

 

[Ces1um]

So I've stitched the photos together, straightened the horizons and generally fiddled a bit with them to look their best (they're my images, I'll do what I wanna ). The 72mm shows the severity of the light leak that I encountered when trying to fully close the stuck film holder. I have been able to improve on those film holders by doing a little selective sanding, but I've been pretty light handed with it because I want those dark slides to stay firmly in place and not rattle about. I thought about returning them but the postage to send them back likely wouldn't make it worth my time. Overall, considering I'm starting into large format and pinhole at the same time, along with some digital editing I've never tried before, I think the results show promise. I've loaded four more sheets in my holders and will expose those tomorrow, weather permitting. I think I may also see if I can wedge a red filter inside the cone to slow down the exposure time. Also, I've figured out a better way to time my exposures. I have a mid sized mens timex expedition watch that I've set a one second countdown timer for. The watch has the option to reset the countdown and start again and each time the countdown ends it beeps. Essentially I have a one second metronome on my watch, which I think is absolutely brilliant (Frankly I'm stunned that I thought of it). I can now time my exposures by counting the beeps. Not bad for a $50 cdn watch!

 

[Ces1um]

Thanks for taking the time to do this...it was interesting and informative.

As was your post. Please keep shooting with the direct positive paper- I would love to see how your results improve as you get used to using it. I'll be experimenting myself with some soon once I burn through this film and I think that low iso will certainly help with timing the exposure. I think we could really pass along some decent advice to each other.

 

[rpavich]

As was your post. Please keep shooting with the direct positive paper- I would love to see how your results improve as you get used to using it. I'll be experimenting myself with some soon once I burn through this film and I think that low iso will certainly help with timing the exposure. I think we could really pass along some decent advice to each other.

I will do that but so far, it's been really bad. I've been rating it at ISO 8 but overexposing. I'm not sure if that's just because of the snowy contrasty conditions or what but it's very frustrating so far.

I've been using Joe Van Cleave's method of exposure:
Do an exposure check with light meter f/90.
Divide pinhole camera exposure by f/90.
Square that number and multiply by the shutter speed you got at f/90.

That is your new pinhole exposure time.

It's been working for Delta 100 film just fine but for the Harman Positive paper it's overexposing.

 

[Ces1um]

I will do that but so far, it's been really bad. I've been rating it at ISO 8 but overexposing. I'm not sure if that's just because of the snowy contrasty conditions or what but it's very frustrating so far.

I've been using Joe Van Cleave's method of exposure:
Do an exposure check with light meter f/90.
Divide pinhole camera exposure by f/90.
Square that number and multiply by the shutter speed you got at f/90.

That is your new pinhole exposure time.

It's been working for Delta 100 film just fine but for the Harman Positive paper it's overexposing.

I downloaded a fantastic app called "pinhole assist". It was $3.99 cdn but worth every penny. There is a preset for your camera and for harman direct positive paper. It takes into account reciprocity failure, the iso of your film, the f stop of your pinhole and has exposure compensation values you can tap for things like compensating for backlit subjects or snow. It has a built in spirit level, a log, and compensation for filters you may use for black and white photography. Your math is likely spot on but with so many things to concentrate on with pinhole photographs it may offer you the assistance you need. If you can nail your exposure and still find things aren't going as you planned, maybe you can start to explore things like development errors. That's the approach I'm taking, otherwise it's just all too overwhelming.

 

[Ces1um]

I will do that but so far, it's been really bad. I've been rating it at ISO 8 but overexposing. I'm not sure if that's just because of the snowy contrasty conditions or what but it's very frustrating so far.
It's been working for Delta 100 film just fine but for the Harman Positive paper it's overexposing.

I've heard that the direct positive paper is very contrasty. Couple that with high contrast shooting conditions I'd say you're going to run into issues. Thinking that they are either your fault or the paper's may not be the most productive way of fixing this issue. It's more likely that your shooting conditions and the results the paper is known to produce are simply the culprit and you're experiencing a perfect storm of contrast. You could try pre-flashing the paper but better yet, why don't you shoot a photo indoors of something with a lot of tonality (like say a bookshelf full of books, or a still life of a bowl of fruit). Something where you can control the lighting conditions and see if this is really your fault or is it simply the conditions you have to use it in. I think shooting objects that aren't going to move at all may add some clarity to your shots too. If you can get good results this way, then you know it's not you or the paper, just the shooting conditions. I know, I'm rambling but do you see what I'm getting at?

 

[John Koehrer]

When you get tired of messing with the broken holder don't toss the darkslides, you may need them in the future. They can crack
Don't feel bad about forgetting a thing or two starting out, There's nothing you can do that hasn't been done before.
There's at least one thread about beginners mistake in the LF section. If nothing else it'll give
a selection of other things you can do to feel part of the crowd.

 

[Ces1um]

When you get tired of messing with the broken holder don't toss the darkslides, you may need them in the future. They can crack

Thanks for the excellent advice. I'll make sure I keep them although I think the issue is actually the piece attached at the very top of the dark slide (the area which indicates exposed or unexposed film). They appear warped.

 

[rpavich]

I downloaded a fantastic app called "pinhole assist". It was $3.99 cdn but worth every penny. There is a preset for your camera and for harman direct positive paper. It takes into account reciprocity failure, the iso of your film, the f stop of your pinhole and has exposure compensation values you can tap for things like compensating for backlit subjects or snow. It has a built in spirit level, a log, and compensation for filters you may use for black and white photography. Your math is likely spot on but with so many things to concentrate on with pinhole photographs it may offer you the assistance you need. If you can nail your exposure and still find things aren't going as you planned, maybe you can start to explore things like development errors. That's the approach I'm taking, otherwise it's just all too overwhelming.

Yes, I have that app. It agrees with my lightmeter conversion. I'm doing a test shot now from my porch.
I checked it with my meter, and with pinhole and they are very close. I also checked it with a chart that I got off of Mr. Pinhole.com.

I've been developing in rotary jobo drums using 1:15 mix of Ilford paper developer for 3 minutes. 1 minute stop of water / vinegar, and a 3 minute fix using kodak fixer. I'm developing my shot now, I should have something in a few minutes.

 

[rpavich]

I've heard that the direct positive paper is very contrasty. Couple that with high contrast shooting conditions I'd say you're going to run into issues. Thinking that they are either your fault or the paper's may not be the most productive way of fixing this issue. It's more likely that your shooting conditions and the results the paper is known to produce are simply the culprit and you're experiencing a perfect storm of contrast. You could try pre-flashing the paper but better yet, why don't you shoot a photo indoors of something with a lot of tonality (like say a bookshelf full of books, or a still life of a bowl of fruit). Something where you can control the lighting conditions and see if this is really your fault or is it simply the conditions you have to use it in. I think shooting objects that aren't going to move at all may add some clarity to your shots too. If you can get good results this way, then you know it's not you or the paper, just the shooting conditions. I know, I'm rambling but do you see what I'm getting at?

That's probably true. I might do an indoors test just to fend off boredom and give myself a sanity check.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Using sheet film allows one to make many more learning blunders. It is just part of the learning process.

 

[rpavich]

Using sheet film allows one to make many more learning blunders. It is just part of the learning process.

Yes, true. I've been having good success with sheet film. It's much more forgiving. Also, have had good success with making paper negs using MGIV paper.

 

[Joe VanCleave]

You may want to meter for the highlights and let the shadows fall where they may, for contrasty snow conditions.

Or increase the rated ISO of the paper.

And set your iPod to airplane mode to help preserve power.

 

[rpavich]

You may want to meter for the highlights and let the shadows fall where they may, for contrasty snow conditions.

Or increase the rated ISO of the paper.

And set your iPod to airplane mode to help preserve power.

That appears to be what worked. I rated the paper at ISO 10 and got a good exposure for the snowy areas and the shadows were very dark which was ok and expected. I'm going to try again tomorrow.
PS: thanks for your great video catalog....they are really interesting and helpful.

 

[Ces1um]

I will do that but so far, it's been really bad. I've been rating it at ISO 8 but overexposing. I'm not sure if that's just because of the snowy contrasty conditions or what but it's very frustrating so far.

Do an exposure check with light meter f/90.

You did say you were shooting from indoors through the window to the scene outdoors. I doubt you would've made this mistake, but there's no chance you're taking an incident reading of your indoors lighting rather than a spot/matrix/evaluative reading of the outdoors? It would certainly explain the overexposure. I'm sure there's little to no chance you've done this, but I know I've pulled some bone-headed moves from time to time.

 

[ciniframe]

One way to practice with your new camera and film holders is to use photo paper as a negative. You can get a 100 sheet 8X10 package of Arista fixed grade 2 RC paper and that will give you 400 4X5 sheets to load. You can load and process under darkroom safelight which really makes it simple and the equipment is minimal. Only contact print the ones you like. Probably 1/3 the price of film per shot.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Pinhole cameras have very small apertures and therefore the exposures are long. Therefore the exact timing is not critical. Just have fun using it.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

When I first started pinhole photography, I was using 120 film rated at ISO 400 and 200 - this was way too high for bright outdoor scenes. It sometimes resulted in exposure times around a second and sometimes I could see my hand in the photo as I opened or closed the shutter.

Since then I'm using about ISO 25 and more often my exposures range from 45 seconds to 45 minutes depending on the scene. This range, and film's latitude, makes the process much easier. In an experiment, there was virtually no difference between a 10 minute photo and a 15 minute photo.

 

[rpavich]

You did say you were shooting from indoors through the window to the scene outdoors. I doubt you would've made this mistake, but there's no chance you're taking an incident reading of your indoors lighting rather than a spot/matrix/evaluative reading of the outdoors? It would certainly explain the overexposure. I'm sure there's little to no chance you've done this, but I know I've pulled some bone-headed moves from time to time.

No, this was outside but I'm sure that I mis-measured the light. That's at least partially responsible for the error. I think that part of it too is just the contrast of the scene giving me problems.

 

[Ces1um]

Pinhole cameras have very small apertures and therefore the exposures are long. Therefore the exact timing is not critical. Just have fun using it.

Clearly you've never met my OCD before.

 

[Ces1um]

Well, I'm off to go expose four sheets of film. That being said, in the process or checking my dark slides I may have inadvertently partially exposed two shots. So, damn.... This whole film holder/dark slide thing is so foreign.

 

[rpavich]

Well, I'm off to go expose four sheets of film. That being said, in the process or checking my dark slides I may have inadvertently partially exposed two shots. So, damn.... This whole film holder/dark slide thing is so foreign.

Hahaha...it is to me too.
Good luck.

 

[Ces1um]

Well, I got three shots no problem. The fourth shot I took, put my dark slide back in and it fetched up, crunched, and withdrawing the film holder literally ejected one of the sheets of film. Obviously my film loading kung fu is weak. I'm going to use the ruined sheet to practice loading film so I can see what's going on. My beeping watch metronome is working very well, and now I have a new way of exposing the pinhole. I pull out my dark slide, and hold it in front of the cap- then I cup my hand around the cap, pull it off while shielding it from light and quickly put the dark slide up against the pinhole to block the light. Much easier to pull away and replace the dark slide to block the pinhole for short exposures. I'll try to get back to work today and develop these 3 sheets. Hopefully they turned out. Even though this is trickier to do, it's pretty obvious that it will become much easier once I work out the bugs. I do wish I had one or two more film holders though.