My First Medium Format - What Should It Be?

Hello to everybody! I'm looking for some spare parts for a Mamiya RB67 ProS, specifically some pieces: cocking level (and relative accessories) and main cocking pinion. Camera's (damn!) previous owner forced it and broke lever and its relative pipe fixed on top of the pinion.
Following OEM code number I'm looking for: RS 1925, RS 1329, RS 1311 (with related screws) and RS 1312K2.
Around the world could I find an angel who help with my desperate research?!?
Any suggestion will be grateful accept!!

This is broken pipe inside pinion..

Ultraanalogic said:

Hello to everybody! I'm looking for some spare parts for a Mamiya RB67 ProS, specifically some pieces: cocking level (and relative accessories) and main cocking pinion. Camera's (damn!) previous owner forced it and broke lever and its relative pipe fixed on top of the pinion.
Following OEM code number I'm looking for: RS 1925, RS 1329, RS 1311 (with related screws) and RS 1312K2.
Around the world could I find an angel who help with my desperate research?!?
Any suggestion will be grateful accept!!

This is broken pipe inside pinion..

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Suggestion- start a new thread with this as the subject. On an old long thread like this, people often overlook new posts. If you make a separate post your problem should get much more attention.

markbau said:

Or Bronica or Mamiya or Pentax.
When I was printing profesionaly in the 1990s in Denver the vast majority of medium format film was 67, in fact 6x6 was quite rare and 645 almost unheard of. I think Hasselblad's (whilst obviously fine cameras) are now mainly status symbols. If you're going MF, why go for a smaller neg?

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Thank you sir, salutes to all who don't fall for the artificiality of what makes photography great.

abruzzi said:

As you've seen, the 135W back for the ETRSi is crazy expensive--usually about $400. That screens seems to be far more common than the back. I bought mine just to get a split screen.

Some will tell you just to shoot on the 120 back and crop--you'd get the same field of view--but there is something irrationally cool about shooting in panoramic format on 35. Also the 135W back goces you access to some film stock that isn't available in 120.

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There is only way to get the 135W back rather cheap, when it is part of a package. While that wold mean spending possibly 600 in one go, the back becomes nearly free all considering. Problem is not too many such packages are being offered and so the search is on. I had missed one earlier in the year, but that was before I figured ETRSi was as good as I know it is now. I also hear about people having har time loading film into the 135 backs, but it does not really concern me too much

runswithsizzers said:

Rangefinders (and TLRs) suffer from the following limitations; SLR cameras do not:

Parallax errors at closer focusing distances.
Inability to easily observe the effect of a graduated ND filter, a polarizing filter, or a screw-on close up lens.
Can't visually check depth of field at stopped down aperture.​

Personal preferences. You have yours, I have mine.

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Well, if you want to make a point, don't forget to mention what the other side of the coin has to show, and surely you do know that too

Rangefinders:

• no mirror moving around, no slapping, no recoil effect (very pronounced on some, well controlled on other SLRs), this is especially something to think abut in MF format SLR
• MUCH quieter, again due to mirror movement
• typically smaller and lighter.
• typically less complicated, often more natural handling

Bottom line SLR and RF have their strengths and weaknesses. There is no denying SLR will bring along a whole system with inherent flexibility for any shooting conditions (at a price in both, money and bulk). Rangefinders give a great handy tool for creating same high quality images, and with a loss of system flexibility they often surpass SLR in handling, a critical difference for some shooting conditions.

I had an extensive Bronica S2a system and enjoyed using it for many years. I had to sell it, because of my eye eight; I couldn't focus it effectively. I ended up selling it and bought an RB67 that allowed me to effectively correct for my eyesight. I like this camera a lot. The size doesn't phase me, because I can get a superior image from this camera.

One thing I did not like about the S2a, is that it had a focal plane shutter that took 1/40 sec for the slit to travel across the format. This has serious implications for capturing movement, even at high shutter speeds, like 1/250th. Regardless of the shutter speed (even 1/1000th sec), it still takes 1/40th sec for the focal plan slit to travel across the format. For me, this was not a problem, because I was more interested in stills, and I photographed always on a tripod.

If I'm not mistaken, all the Mamiya 645's have focal plane shutters, except that the slit travels across the format more quickly. But, not quick enough for me. I will never again have a camera with a focal plane shutter.

Between the Pentax, Bronica, and Mamiya, the camera that would be best suited for me in a 645 is one of a Bronica Etr series. Lenses have between the lens shutters, and the bodies can accept interchangeable backs, an absolute must for me. I believe that they have diopter corrections, they have prisms, and so on.

Witold said:

There is only way to get the 135W back rather cheap, when it is part of a package. While that wold mean spending possibly 600 in one go, the back becomes nearly free all considering. Problem is not too many such packages are being offered and so the search is on. I had missed one earlier in the year, but that was before I figured ETRSi was as good as I know it is now. I also hear about people having har time loading film into the 135 backs, but it does not really concern me too much

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I came close to getting one for a good price. But they had mis-listed a SQ back as an an ETR back. When it arrived it was in amazing condition for ~$220 but I had to send it back since I wasn’t going to fully invest in the SQ system just to shoot the one back.... I just ordered a cheap 135N back, but that is far less interesting that a 135W back. I continue to keep my eye out, but I’m not expecting to find one.

Neil Poulsen said:

If I'm not mistaken, all the Mamiya 645's have focal plane shutters, except that the slit travels across the format more quickly.

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The accessory leaf shutter lenses for the Mamiya 645 solve the problem - as long as 1/500 second is fast enough for you.

"as long as 1/500 second is fast enough for you"

Hasselblad c/m or 645, or a 1958 TLR Minolta 'E', all have the same top speed of 500th, so GOOD, Neutral Density Filters are a must, and I suggest shooting with a Circular Polarizer when able, inside or out, especially with Colour Films.

I worked as assistant to a good Studio Photographer, for a few years, who used the 645 system, and I can no recall a single failure in many, many shot images, both studio and Location, product or fashion, no once!

I would hold out for a banger Hasselblad 500 c/m, IF I wanted to work with my Camera, but the 645 will serve and accessories are far, far less expensive.

The only mechanical downside to the 645, vs Hasselblad and the Minolta 'E', IMO only, is the simpler focal plain shutter does no allow you to shoot at any speed you chose.

Cheers!

Fuji 6x9 with 90mm

Just to stay on the shutter type topic. For me the advantages of a focal plane shutter over a leaf shutter are:

1. faster shutter speeds. The Mamiya 645 AFD series shutters go up to 1/4000 s.
2. no shutter needed in every lens, so a less cost and a larger aperture possible.
3. FP shutter camera's usually have a hot shoe for flashes which is very convenient for using wireless flash remote controls/triggers. No cables needed.

Only if you mix flash with (bright) daylight and want to use a wide aperture, then leaf shutters have the advantage that you can use a higher shutter speed. In a studio environment with flash only, the shutter speed is pretty much irrelevant. The flash duration freezes the motion, not the shutter speed and the focal plane flash sync speed of 1/60 or 1/125 works in my experience very well.

I'm curious what problems Neil Poulson experienced that made him dislike the FP shutters so much.

spijker said:

Just to stay on the shutter type topic. For me the advantages of a focal plane shutter over a leaf shutter are:

1. faster shutter speeds. The Mamiya 645 AFD series shutters go up to 1/4000 s.
2. no shutter needed in every lens, so a less cost and a larger aperture possible.
3. FP shutter camera's usually have a hot shoe for flashes which is very convenient for using wireless flash remote controls/triggers. No cables needed.

Only if you mix flash with (bright) daylight and want to use a wide aperture, then leaf shutters have the advantage that you can use a higher shutter speed. In a studio environment with flash only, the shutter speed is pretty much irrelevant. The flash duration freezes the motion, not the shutter speed and the focal plane flash sync speed of 1/60 or 1/125 works in my experience very well.

I'm curious what problems Neil Poulson experienced that made him dislike the FP shutters so much.

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Neil may have been referring to geometrical distortion that can be quite disturbing on fast moving subject across the frame with slow running slit of FP shutter.

I would recommend getting an inexpensive 6x6 folder and see if you even like medium format. I purchased an old Ansco 6x6 for $25 from ebay and learned metering, sunny 16 and development at home. After that I bought my Mamiya RZ67ll kit and my Fuji GFX50R for digital. Medium Format is a different venture so try it cheap then go from there. If anything you may have more fun with the folder when shooting street and people will come up to you about the camera because it is different.

Cary Lee said:

I would recommend getting an inexpensive 6x6 folder and see if you even like medium format. I purchased an old Ansco 6x6 for $25 from ebay and learned metering, sunny 16 and development at home. After that I bought my Mamiya RZ67ll kit and my Fuji GFX50R for digital. Medium Format is a different venture so try it cheap then go from there. If anything you may have more fun with the folder when shooting street and people will come up to you about the camera because it is different.

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MF is indeed different, but I am not so sure an old folder is a sure way to check it out. Folders are fun, some really good tools too, but from my perpsective a camera of good quality is needed to really have a go at it. Plus, for a quality folder you can have pretty good basic set up for MF system camera.

Witold said:

MF is indeed different, but I am not so sure an old folder is a sure way to check it out. Folders are fun, some really good tools too, but from my perpsective a camera of good quality is needed to really have a go at it. Plus, for a quality folder you can have pretty good basic set up for MF system camera.

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The OP says that he has extensive experience with a 35mm slr. He doesn't specify what the 35mm camera is and whether or not it has any auto-functions or even a light meter. I would say that a medium format SLR or RF or even a folder would be great depending on what he is comfortable with. If he spends a lot of time with the sunny 16 rule, then a folder is a great option. I have two modern RF medium format cameras and two folders (one a range finder). Of those cameras, the one I shoot the most is my Agfa Isolette II (not a range finder). I estimate the focus and the exposure about 90% of the time, occasionally I'll use a light meter. Certo6 usually good quality folders available for a good price.

wyofilm said:

The OP says that he has extensive experience with a 35mm slr. He doesn't specify what the 35mm camera is and whether or not it has any auto-functions or even a light meter. I would say that a medium format SLR or RF or even a folder would be great depending on what he is comfortable with. If he spends a lot of time with the sunny 16 rule, then a folder is a great option. I have two modern RF medium format cameras and two folders (one a range finder). Of those cameras, the one I shoot the most is my Agfa Isolette II (not a range finder). I estimate the focus and the exposure about 90% of the time, occasionally I'll use a light meter. Certo6 usually good quality folders available for a good price.

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What I said was folder is not for everyone as a good starter because it has a lot of limitations and not everyone is going to like results from a cheap folder, partly due to generally much higher image quality expectations from medium format, which such folder will not deliver. Once you go into actual qualities, Zeiss Ikontas etc. prices disqualify the idea of trying it on a cheap, I have some 2 dozen folders and while I enjoy playing with them, I see them as later choice for a new comer to this format.

But, I do not entirely disagree with taking on MF with a simple folder, it might just help getting hooked, so long as expectations are met with reality.

The problem I have is that if that folder does not meet expectations, it would be wrong to assume it gave what MF can and a potential MF user drops out thinking meh vs. wow.

For a folder, I suggest a Zeiss Ikon Ikonta or Super Ikonta,, in 6mm x 6cm or 6cm x 9cm, post 1930 or so, or, a FSU Iskra, which has Zeiss Glass, taken by the Soviets as part of their WWII reparations (they packed the entire factory up and moved it to the Soviet Union.

Both cameras produce nice images, though the Iskra is a pit delicate because of a very thin brass film transport gear.

The post 1930 Ikontas include coated lenses and are really a pleasure to use, with tight, strong standards.

The Iskra would take some looking, as there were few made, relative to a Fed, etc. and many had ugly holes cut into the backs by pro-photographers, and I was very lucky to find the one I did have, in that other than stiff grease lube, it was in great condition.

One more medium format, format and camera to consider would be a 4cm x 4cm (127) Primo Jr. aka Sawyer's Mark IV.

It has a great lens and viewfinder, both sharp and bright, much smaller than a 6x6, can fit in an overcoat pocket and a joy to use.

It is a great street camera as it almost looks like a toy and attracts less scrutiny from people too busy to pay attention on to the world around them

There is, I believe some 4cm x 4cm roll films being made, but you can buy a film slitter on Ebay and cut down 120 rolls,and trim back the ends of the paper, however, that will lead to some fogged film edges, so to keep this at a minimum, carry a small changing bag and do your cut-downs in the darkroom, with a green safe light, on only to trim ends and use black plastic 120 roll holders.

Used Bay 1 filters, Series holders and new threads to bay 1 adapters as well as, plastic lens hoods are easy enough to find.

Rolllieflex and Yashica both made "baby TLRs" but they are lesser cameras, in my and others opinions But I would be happy to have them in my 4x4 bag.