My first LF camera. Excited! Can use some advice.

nosmok · Aug 9, 2022

Dark cloth: one of my cameras came with 2 bath towel sized pieces of thin black fabric. I use 2 99cent store potato chip bag clips to hold them together- they provide enough weight to drape over any camera without overloading it or being hard to get off, and it's plenty dark enough under both to focus (helps if you pinch off the bottom) even in noontime SoCal sun.

Focusing loupes: I use an old 10x B&J grain focusing telescope so I don't have to touch the glass. On 4x5, the telescope is a lot better than the loupes b/c the glass is so small.

A good tripod is essential; the only modern one I have is a small Berlebach, and I can recommend it enthusiatically. Mine was used, functions as new and looks good too.

Steven Lee · Aug 9, 2022

Nitroplait said:
From your choices, it doesn't look like you have budgetary concerns, but as has already been hinted, not everything has to come off the top shelf from day one. Also, this is not one-size-fits all, so you may realize that you have different than average needs.

You are absolutely right.

Nitroplait said:
Foma for less than 1€ pr sheet (maybe somthing else in US) to practice. There are just so many things to go wrong until you get it under your skin. Foma is also fine for prime time, but if budget allows there are films that are easier to handle out there.

I love the Fomapan look, so I'll definitely be trying it. Hoping to avoid QA issues with their sheet films. I've had bad batches with pink dots on my Fomapan 100 and dark micro-cracks on Fomapan 200 in 120 format. The latter issue seems to be happening continuously so from my perspective all Fomapan 200 currently for sale is defective.

Nitroplait said:
A thick oversized black t-shirt or light jacket as dark cloth. Remember that you want to travel light - if something can have a double function it is a plus.

Perfect. Exactly the kind of advice I need, thank you.

Rick A said:
Well, it seems the dark cloth and loupe have been covered enough, so lets get on to light meter, tripod, and means of transporting the kit. A good quality incident light meter is essential, also a spot meter is handy to have. Is your tripod sturdy enough to handle the weight of the camera plus stout enough to withstand any wind. How do you plan on packing your kit into the back country COMFORTABLY, and BTW you're going to need more film holders than the two you bought

I use a Gossen incident meter for all my MF photography and never had exposure issues on color and B&W negative film. I also had the Minolta Spotmeter for a long time but - ashamed to admit - never used it. It was purchased to rely on spot metering with telephoto lenses when a distant object is illuminated differently vs my own location, but the longest medium format focal length I'm comfortable with is 150mm so it's been sitting unused in a cabinet for years. Perhaps it's more important for slide shooters...

Steven Lee · Aug 9, 2022

I see the advice of having a strong tripod is fairly universal. But strong is a subjective term, plus there's always the trade-off against weight and portability.

I have two: the heavier Vanguard Alta Pro and more lightweight Peak Design tripod. Despite being cheaper, the Vanguard is a bit sturdier, but it's heavier. Both tripods served me well with the Bronica GS-1, my heaviest camera to date. But long-ish exposures under windy conditions were always out of question, TBH I am not even sure if that's possible to have a portable hiking tripod which could help with the wind.

I hope they'll be adequate for the Chamonix.

Rick A · Aug 9, 2022

I chose tripods that are rated for 3x the weight of my largest camera (Nagaoka 8x10) . I have both alloy and carbon fiber units with three way pan heads and standardized on Arca-Swiss style mounting plates, I can mount any of my cameras on either pod. There's only about one or two ounces difference in actual weight of the tripods for carrying, the alloy is about a foot taller than the CF, and both are three section legs(I think a fourth section would be rather flimsy).

GLS · Aug 9, 2022

Welcome to the path.

In terms of loupes, 4x to 6x seems to be the sweet spot for many. The Horseman long 6x loupe is pretty good, but of course there are others.

For a darkcloth, you might consider the one by Paramo. Waterproof, and very adjustable.

Definitely don't cheap out on the tripod either.

outwest · Aug 9, 2022

I'll add a couple of things. Number your film holders like 1 A and B, 2 A and B or 1 2 3 4. Keep notes in the field of at least subject, exposure measured and exposure used. Make a note on the film holders as you load them of what film is in them. May have to add a sticker above the light seal rib and below the pulls to write on. Make sure your JOBO reel is the N version. Oh, always pull your dark slides under the dark cloth - light is sneaky.

GregY · Aug 9, 2022

"TBH I am not even sure if that's possible to have a portable hiking tripod which could help with the wind."

You're right. They don't. A view camera is a small sail in the wind. A golf umbrella can help as a shield in a light breeze.

GLS · Aug 9, 2022

outwest said:
Oh, always pull your dark slides under the dark cloth - light is sneaky.

I've never done this and haven't had a light leak from the holder opening yet. Mind you my holders are all Toyo, bought new.

SteveInNZ · Aug 9, 2022

Almond Butterscotch said:
100%; I would recommend not just sacrificing a sheet or two, but also keeping it around. I actually sharpied "this side towards lens" on my sacrificial sheets to refresh myself every time I'm loading (because I can never remember if the grooves go top left / bottom right or top right / bottom left).

My "learned it the hard way" is that the notches (top right) refer to having the film in portrait orientation. That doesn't seem to get mentioned often and if you're a landscape (orientation) kinda guy, your film gets loaded upside down. For what it's worth, a lot of light gets through the anti-halation layer on HP5+.

Steve.

GregY · Aug 9, 2022

GLS said:
I've never done this and haven't had a light leak from the holder opening yet. Mind you my holders are all Toyo, bought new.

If the light is shining from the side, directly towards the holder, it doesn't matter what the brand is....

GLS · Aug 9, 2022

GregY said:
If the light is shining from the side, directly towards the holder, it doesn't matter what the brand is....

As I said, it's never been an issue for me, including in situations like that. As a precaution though I do typically shade the opening with the removed dark slide (propping it on the bellows is often convenient). Having the whole setup under a dark cloth is overkill IMO.

Doremus Scudder · Aug 9, 2022

Lots of good advice here so far. Here's some of mine:

First, be aware that focusing a view camera is quite a bit different than focusing a 35mm or MF camera. Often, you are most interested in optimizing depth of field, so determining near and far points that you want in sharp focus and making sure that they are becomes the goal of focusing.

Mastering the use of camera movements is also something important with view cameras like the Chamonix you are getting. Using movements for dealing with perspective distortion in architectural work is one aspect. Another is positioning the plane of sharp focus for optimizing your depth of field (or vice-versa).

There are learning curves for both these things, but it's really not that difficult; just a lot of information to digest at first.

If you are not aware of the LargeFormatPhotography.info home page and the related forum, I would point you in that direction. Specifically, look at the articles on the home page about depth of field, focusing, selecting the f-stop. There's a trove of other LF-related articles there as well. The fora have lots of info on movements, etc., etc.

Have fun on your new endeavor,

Doremus

Donald Qualls · Aug 9, 2022

Steven Lee said:
Hoping to avoid QA issues with their sheet films. I've had bad batches with pink dots on my Fomapan 100 and dark micro-cracks on Fomapan 200 in 120 format.

I haven't used dozens of boxes of Fomapan, but I've used it for most of my black and white (in all three formats) since 2003. I've never seen any of the defects others describe (I believe they exist, I've just been lucky with my 120). I do have a 4x5 negative with an ugly scratch, but that was due to the corner of one sheet dragging across the surface of another while tray developing (I've given that up), not Foma's fault.

GregY · Aug 9, 2022

I agree with the idea of using the most inexpensive film possible. There is certainly a learning curve with LF. I wouldn't for example wish to revisit my early failures using Kodak TMY-2.....they would qualify as expensive lessons.

Steven Lee · Aug 9, 2022

@GregY what mistakes did you make that I can learn from? @Donald Qualls to be fair to Foma Bohemina, all my QC issues were confined to Arista EDU Ultra which has been significantly cheaper. Maybe their QC for Foma-branded batches is better? Or maybe the Arista-branded film all came out from a single unfortunate batch? Anyway, super excited to try sheet Fomapan!

GregY · Aug 9, 2022

Steven Lee said:
@GregY what mistakes did you make that I can learn from? @Donald Qualls to be fair to Foma Bohemina, all my QC issues were confined to Arista EDU Ultra which has been significantly cheaper. Maybe their QC for Foma-branded batches is better? Or maybe the Arista-branded film all came out from a single unfortunate batch? Anyway, super excited to try sheet Fomapan!

.....loading film holders, getting fingerprints on film while loading/unloading, dropping film while loading/unloading, pulling the darkslide having forgotten to close the shutter after focusing, scratching films while tray processing...... that more or less covers it. You're learning a bunch of new biomechanical skills....mostly in the dark. & it takes a while to perfect the handling.

Patrick Robert James · Aug 9, 2022

If you really want cheap film then get the ortho stuff from Photowarehouse/ultrafineonline. Last time I looked a box of 100 was like $30. It is thin which makes it more difficult to handle, but you can load/develop it under a red safelight. It is also real slow which is an issue but it is cheap, cheap enough that you won't think twice about making a picture. Get more holders too when you can. Two is barely anything.

You don't say where you are at but I'd encourage you to find someone local that knows what they are doing. Your learning curve will be drastically reduced by seeing it done with your own eyes.

Steven Lee · Aug 9, 2022

Thank you everyone! Good point on learning f2f, we have a few photo clubs here with workshops and active communities.

grat · Aug 9, 2022

I have a 6x etone loupe that seems fairly robust, and gives a reasonably flat field. Adjustable focus, has a lanyard, etc., and not totally unreasonable pricewise. It will also work with the pop-out hood that Chamonix sells as an accessory.

Might also look into the Grafmatic-- 6 sheets, only slightly larger than a normal film holder.

Chuck1 · Aug 9, 2022

I really like Riteway film holders,easiest to load for me, lf you are fortunate enough to have a darkroom with a table for loading film crib 3 sides, I can't see in the dark, best to do everything to avoid dropping or bumping things onto the floor.
The Pentax digital spot meter is invaluable ( but the $20 sekonik 158 is the best money I ever spent ) a grey card is nice too.

Nitroplait · Aug 10, 2022

Just a footnote: I don't want to diminish peoples problems with Foma, but just say that I have used Foma200 in 35mm and 4x5 (exposed as 100) and have not seen manufacturing issues. I have not used 120.
The challenges I see amounts to soft and easy scratched emulsion as well as difficulty to attain details in the deep shadows - all things you can work with when you are aware.
At €40 for 50 sheets it is hard to complain. Ilford is much easier to work with but at 3 times the cost - and always my choice if I can't redo a session.

Roger Cole · Aug 10, 2022

Donald Qualls said:
Freestyle Photo and B&H both carry Fomapan and the rebranded Arista .EDU Ultra -- same film, different box, almost the same price. Though the rebrand is Freestyle's, sometimes B&H has it for less and they have free shipping for orders over $50 (which is one 50 sheet box of even this low-priced film). IMO, there is no better "first film" for new large format users than one of these two, ISO 100. Once you stop misloading film holders, scratching sheets during development, fogging film in the changing bag because you forgot to take off your smart watch, etc., it's reasonable to move up to other films, but you might well find that, for ISO 100 B&W, you don't like FP4+, Delta 100, or T-Max 100 any better.

It's even cheaper direct from Fotoimpex, as I discovered to my delight when looking into maybe going to 8x10. With current exchange rates making one EUR just about exactly one USD, if you order a few boxes it will more than pay for the extra cost shipping.

Having said that, I skimmed the above and saw some great advice. A little more: have fun, and don't get discouraged. You have to do EVERYTHING yourself with LF, things you don't even think of as "doing anything" with smaller formats, even say a medium format manual camera on a tripod. You can, and I promise WILL, find new and previously un-thought-of ways to screw up, at first probably at least one every time you go out! Just take it in stride as part of the learning curve and again, have fun. It IS a lot of fun, in a different way than smaller formats are also fun, and the mistakes will get fewer and fewer in short order.

Donald Qualls · Aug 10, 2022

Roger Cole said:
the mistakes will get fewer and fewer in short order.

Not to mention, you'll quickly start to get results (on films that aren't subject to previously unknown-to-you screwups) that are worlds beyond anythoing you can get from even 6x9 on 120.

GKC · Aug 10, 2022

The issue of where the film notches should be in relation to the film holder threw me when I was starting out. If you're reading loading directions given by a photographer who loads from the top of the film holder, they'll say the notches go in the upper right. A photographer who loads from the bottom will say the lower left. That's confusing!
What you want is to have the notches where you can identify the type of film when you pull back the dark slide just enough to open the flap and have a feel.
Just in case you've forgotten what's in there.

Donald Qualls · Aug 10, 2022

Of course, some folks use a tape strip to make a note of the contents, and some film holders have a white stripe that will take a grease pencil (or regular pencil) mark that can be rubbed off when the film is processed and the holder reloaded. Notch codes aren't what they used to be anyway; Foma 100 and 400, for instance, have the same code, just three V shaped notches.

My first LF camera. Excited! Can use some advice.

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