MY early birthday present a De Vere 504

[Uncle Bill]

Hi everyone.

My brother dropped off my birthday present early (by a couple of months), a 30 year old De Vere 504 enlarger with a black and white head. It needs a good clean, "new" enlarger lenses for 35mm, 120 6x6 and 4x5. perhaps new filters if I am being anal and I have to re-attach the melamine-particle board base to it (no big deal).

So my questions are as follows, do I have to look for particular EL. lenses that fit this enlarger (I have the cone)? Also is there an online resources for enlargers?

 

[palewin]

Congratulations & happy birthday! I suspect my DeVere 405, bought new, is about the same vintage as your 30-year-old present. Still works perfectly, they are excellent enlargers (there's another thread nearby full of praises from those of us who use them). The issue you are facing is lensboards; there is no particular restriction on lenses. The dealer for DeVere enlargers is www.odessey-sales.com, who can probably answer any questions you have. I'm a bit puzzled by your reference to a "cone" since I have boards/lenses for enlarging 35mm, 120 6x6, and 4x5, and all are relatively flat boards (the 35mm board is slightly recessed, the opposite of a cone). I use very standard Nikon and Schneider enlarging lenses.

 

[david b]

I have a 504 with a color head that I am looking to get rid of. Lots of accessories. Let me know if you need anything.

 

[Uncle Bill]

Cone was a term my brother used. From what you described, I have a 35mm lens board ,the negative carriers for 35mm and 4x5. So that means, I am going to need the 6x6 and 4x5 lens boards, a 6x6 negative carrier and the respective lenses.

Having seen some of the prices of the re-conditioned stuff on Odyessy Sales, I am going to look for used stuff if I can.

Now what I have noticed with the 35mm lens board it's round, recessed and has a 39mm hole with no threads, am I on the right track?

I wish I had a parts diagram/list to work from.

Bill

 

[Peter De Smidt]

Why not call Odyssey Sales and order a manual? (Or KHB Photographic?) Last time I checked they were still available. They list all of the lens/lenboard combinations and lots of other stuff. If they don't sell them anymore, pm me and we'll come up with something.

 

[Mick Fagan]

Bill, With the lens carriers there should be two. One is recessed and this is used for all lenses which take the 39mm thread. In my case I decided to get the hole widened and have a machined alloy threaded piece, permanently inserted.

I run Schneider 50 and 105 Componon S lenses in this. One of the more interesting aspects of the Schneider Componon S lenses, is that their threads are placed in exactly the same position in relation to their external hardware.

This means that when the lenses are screwed in, the backlit aperture is facing the front, with the aperture blade lever situated near the left rear.

By getting the thread insert mounted in the correct position, you are always assured of having the lens in use in the best position for fast and accurate work.

Having used these enlargers in an industrial environment the lens changing saga was sometimes a pain in the rear especially when trying to unscrew a lens that was a bit tight. The other option is to have a lens carrier for each lens.

The larger flat lens carrier is for a 150mm lens, I use a retaining ring, which is standard, for this.

With the plastic hinges that the neg carrier has, I have used for close to 20 years, an old Ilford 5L fixer bottle cut up into the correct size and drilled for where the retaining screws go. These hinges are a pain to purchase, they also cost a packet. Using a sheet metal cutter is perfect for this purpose.

I would suggest that you align your neg/head stage and lens carrier with each other before attaching your base board.

If you look carefully you should see a bolt and a recessed allan key, almost alongside each other on both of these stages. They are the aligning tools you need. You undo the bolt, and then either screw in or out, the alan keyed bolt for alignment. Once aligned, you screw in the bolt and that then locks in your alignment.

The baseboard alignment can be done quite accurately with the four independent bolts in each corner. I had to fit a new baseboard to my enlarger and I had it cut so that it was 75mm longer towards the operator, this allows a 12x16" easel to be used, more or less in the portrait mode, without falling off the edge.

Is it a freestanding enlarger with the drop table?

Mick.

 

[Uncle Bill]

Hi Mick,

I have I guess for lack of a better term, the table top model and right now it is standing on a table next to my computer. I have to re-attach the baseboard which is no big deal.

My lens board is is recessed so that I guess is the "universal" however it is not threaded. I have no idea what lenses (brand) were on this enlarger when it was used in a commercial context. The other big skill testing question is can I use this board to print 4x5 with the appropriate lens of course. Currently I shoot 35mm exclusively but I want to get into medium format (6x6) and later 4x5 ( I can se Rob Teague smiling).

Bill

 

[Bob Carnie]

Well Bill
now you need to find a good home for the durst or you can use it as a second unit for flashing paper.
KHB in Missisauga will have all the stuff you ever need for the Deveere.

Hi everyone.

My brother dropped off my birthday present early (by a couple of months), a 30 year old De Vere 504 enlarger with a black and white head. It needs a good clean, "new" enlarger lenses for 35mm, 120 6x6 and 4x5. perhaps new filters if I am being anal and I have to re-attach the melamine-particle board base to it (no big deal).

So my questions are as follows, do I have to look for particular EL. lenses that fit this enlarger (I have the cone)? Also is there an online resources for enlargers?

 

[Mick Fagan]

Bill, I just measured the maximum print size coverage with a 150mm lens attached, 29" wide x 22" deep. This was with no neg in the carrier, but more or less, this is about what you should achieve.

This is just slightly bigger than you will be able to do with the bench model you have. you may find that there are two positions that the base can be set at.

If you can set it at the lower of the two, which I think is about 75mm lower, you will get the maximum size I have just given to you.

You could use a shorter lens but from my experience the 150 lens gives a more even illumination with 4x5" negs.

Mick.

 

[Sparky]

Well Bill
KHB in Missisauga will have all the stuff you ever need for the Deveere.

At a price, though. They charged me nearly $40 for 8 small screws for part of my neg carrier. As for being 'helpful' - I've found them less than forthcoming, and despite only having needed a small question answered - they insisted I spent $25 on a manual for a piece I wasn't sure if I wanted to keep. Very disappointing. I found them greedy, slightly rude and less than helpful. I'd recommend getting your stuff elsewhere first.

 

[Nick Zentena]

Wow KHB has always been very friendly and help full with me.

They aren't cheap but they've always helped.

 

[Bob Carnie]

I have had major difficulties dealing with them as well in my past.
But Bill lives about 5miles from them and they do have a large stock of used enlarging equipment.

At a price, though. They charged me nearly $40 for 8 small screws for part of my neg carrier. As for being 'helpful' - I've found them less than forthcoming, and despite only having needed a small question answered - they insisted I spent $25 on a manual for a piece I wasn't sure if I wanted to keep. Very disappointing. I found them greedy, slightly rude and less than helpful. I'd recommend getting your stuff elsewhere first.

 

[Sparky]

Wow KHB has always been very friendly and help full with me.

They aren't cheap but they've always helped.

I came across a devere timer and asked them if it would work for my transtab... they refused to help no matter what - then insisted I buy one of their crappy photocopied manuals (if you're going to charge that much - the least you can do is OCR the thing and lay it out to be more legible and clear!) - which didn't even have the information in it. To say that I was pissed off about that would be a HUGE understatement!

 

[Uncle Bill]

Here is what my 504 looks like

It is not an autofocus model so it looks like I am cool with the lensboard I think. I am still going to need condensers for 6x6 if I want to shoot that format and I plan too at some point. and of course enlarging lenses which will be from Ebay.

It's in my study for now so I can give it a good clean and I have to remount the board onto the enlarger base. This puppy weighs a ton and I am not looking forward to moving it to it's permanent home.

As for dealing with KHB, they are technically in my backyard, they have a fair chunk of the goodies, I have not talked to them yet and having seen some of their auctions on Ebay, I think they will my source of last resort.

Bill

 

[Peter De Smidt]

Have had a few dealing with both Odyssey Sales and KHB, and the service from both has been very irregular. One time, I'll get a quick response, and other times it takes weeks and repeated email (or phone calls.) I still recommend checking both places, as the prices can very wildly. Odyssey Sales might want $200 for a 4x5 diffusior, whereas KHB might want $50, and vice versa. Btw, I have lots of spare De Vere pieces, timers, lensboards... (I have three De-Vere enlargers, and each was bought as a package)

 

[Sparky]

I gutted mine. Well, the head - and I installed a cold light. Seemed to be far less painful than dealing with KHB to get my lamphouse operating properly! But now I've got the odious chore of trying to remove the baseboard and re-route the head transport controls(!!!!). I mounted a table-mount 504 on a wall... but need to build a drop-table so I can floor-project. I suppose I'll build a drop-table to accomodate. But I'm really at a loss as to what to do with the transport controls. I suppose the only (easy) route is to keep them at the column base... I thought of moving them to the far side of the room - an extra 2 feet... but it seems too complicated, with little gain in convenience. Maybe use the extension rods as 'disconnects' I can easily remove for drop-table use...

 

[Ross Chambers]

With the plastic hinges that the neg carrier has, I have used for close to 20 years, an old Ilford 5L fixer bottle cut up into the correct size and drilled for where the retaining screws go. These hinges are a pain to purchase, they also cost a packet. Using a sheet metal cutter is perfect for this purpose.


I had to fit a new baseboard to my enlarger and I had it cut so that it was 75mm longer towards the operator, this allows a 12x16" easel to be used, more or less in the portrait mode, without falling off the edge.

Mick.

Thanks Mick, two great tips, particularly the fixer bottle hinge one: Oz ingenuity!

504+500H+RH designs = near perfection.

Regards - Ross
Blue Mountains NSW

 

[Uncle Bill]

Further update

I got an enlarger lens, a Nikkor 50 f2.8 so I can print 35mm to start only to find out jam nuts won't fasten the lens to the lensboard due to the said part's thickness. After chatting with KHB and being told a brand spanking new lensboard costs near $200 CAD, a used one made of composite material goes for $75 CAD and getting a strong sales pitch for getting the manual, I am going to got the flange route and some self tapping screws. KHB does not give anything away that's for sure.

Bill

 

[canuhead]

I have the 504 and 5108 and consider the manuals a necessary addition to the darkroom. If I have a problem or need info, it's all there.

Sorry to hear some people have had issues with KHB as I've had no problems. They've always had time to help me out when I try to pick their brains for info. I'd dealt with them years ago with lighting repairs so maybe that gave me some history with them ?

The problem with Deveres is that there aren't alot of used ones or parts out there so our sources are rather limited. Even the auction site is bereft of stuff.

You'll love focussing with the control stalks down low as opposed to up by the head, especially if yer arms aren't the longest.

 

[Dinesh]

..........Sorry to hear some people have had issues with KHB as I've had no problems. They've always had time to help me out when I try to pick their brains for info.

I concur. Kevin has always been very helpful.

 

[Sparky]

I got an enlarger lens, a Nikkor 50 f2.8 so I can print 35mm to start only to find out jam nuts won't fasten the lens to the lensboard due to the said part's thickness. After chatting with KHB and being told a brand spanking new lensboard costs near $200 CAD, a used one made of composite material goes for $75 CAD and getting a strong sales pitch for getting the manual, I am going to got the flange route and some self tapping screws. KHB does not give anything away that's for sure.

Bill

Bill - you should try asking here for help first maybe. If you still need a manual - I can see what I can do to get you something. That's why APUG is here!

 

[Peter De Smidt]

Or you could have a machinist machine down the thickness around the lensboard mounting hole. In fact, it's just aluminium so a router with a carbide bit would work. I have lots of spare lensboards, but I don't think I have any spare recessed ones. But I'll look this weekend.

 

[Sparky]

My devere lensboards are designed (seemingly) to have the lenses screw directly into them. I guess the hole's too big for that? Honestly, if I were you - I would just use a strong glue (seems like a crude solution maybe - but it'll work). Perhaps not EPOXY.. but a drop or two of cyanoacrylate superglue perhaps.

 

[Peter De Smidt]

My devere lensboards are designed (seemingly) to have the lenses screw directly into them. I guess the hole's too big for that? Honestly, if I were you - I would just use a strong glue (seems like a crude solution maybe - but it'll work). Perhaps not EPOXY.. but a drop or two of cyanoacrylate superglue perhaps.

Boards came both threaded and non-threaded. I have some of both. How about contact cement? You can always take the ring off by using a heat gun.

I can't seem to find my 50mm lens, which is weird, although I don't enlarge 35mm much. Could someone check if you can focus a 50mm with a flat board? If so, I have spare flat boards threaded with a 39mm Leica thread.

 

[Sparky]

Boards came both threaded and non-threaded. I have some of both. How about contact cement? You can always take the ring off by using a heat gun.

You wouldn't even need a heat gun to remove the contact cement. You really wouldn't need that much, anyway, of whatever you use. Actually - I think that nail polish would actually work superbly! One spot on each of four quadrants. No ring. Just at the contact point between the rear flange and the face of the board.