My Challenge - Kodak High Contrast Copy Film (5069)

[hoffy]

Howdy all,

The nice guys at the Film Photography Pod Cast have come good on their word and sent me a sampler of expired film! Yay for me!

Of interest is the Expired Kodak High Contrast Copy Film (5069) that they shipped my way (expired May 1978). This is their Wild Card Film.

Since they have been good on their word, its only fair that I give it a shot. OK, so I know its a copy film, but what else could I do with it? Can I shoot with it out in the field?

And Developing - I have found a Data sheet that suggests D-19 (which I have never heard of). Is it possible to develop in D-76/ID11?

Any advice on what I should do with it is welcome!

Cheers

 

[Denis R]

data

T-64

High Contrast options

Kodak
D-19 D-11 D-8 D-85

Dupont
7-D 15-D

Agfa 40

GAF
22 30 90

Ilford ID-13

more data, data sheets, recipes available upon request

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

What effect are you looking for: High contrast Kodalith-like; or continuous tone Tech-Pan like?

HCC was the first microfilm used for continuous tone photography. The film was developed with H&W Control developer, which hasn't been made for many, many years (well, neither has HCC).

The quoted formula for H&W comes from:
http://www.frugalphotographer.com/info-formulary-general.htm

H&W is a concentrate, but for comparison purposes 1 liter of working developer contains
0.55 gm Phenidone
0.08 gm Hydroquinone
4.50 gm S. Sulfite
2.80 gm S. Carbonate

Unlike this formula H&W was water clear and remained water clear after close to 40 years of storage in an odd corner of a basement. It was also more concentrated than the formula given in the Frugal Photographer web site.

The patent for H&W is available at Google patents
US Patent 3,772,019

Other patents for similar developers:

Patent 4,083,722
1.50 gm Phenidone
0.50 gm Hydroquinone
0.25 gm Metol
30.00 gm S. Sulfite
0.75 gm Borax
to 1 litre water

Patent 4,205,124, interestingly this patent claims there is a magic ratio of P to Q of 1:2 by weight.
1 gm Phenidone
2 gm Hydroquinone
30 gm S. Sulfite
10 gm S. Carbonate
To 1 liter water

 

[hoffy]

Thanks for the replies guys,

Thats the thing, I have no idea what I can do with it! I would probably like to try something different like high contrast. I might have to google kodalith to see what results look like.

Cheers

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

It won't be exactly like Kodalith, though you might come close if you use a lithography developer (the type used for lithographic film, not 'lith printing'). You will have to play around with exposure so the black/white transition point is in the middle (or where you want it) of the subjects luminance scale.

With development in D-19 or Dektol you will get very high contrast results but they may not be all that pleasing, more like the proverbial 'soot and chalk'.

But the point is to have fun and maybe learn a thing or too, so don't take it too seriously, just do what feels right.

 

[Rhodes]

I have several kodak rapid process film, what are the similarities with this one? Can use the same developer?

 

[John Shriver]

It was the immediate ancestor of Technical Pan. I think Technical Pan is somewhat more amenable to use as a semi-low-contrast film. When I used High Contrast Copy a few times in the 1970's, I did high-contrast using D-19 developer. I don't recall what speed I used in daylight, but I probably bracketed. (The negatives are elsewhere at present.)

I've bought a pack of D-19 to play with the few rolls I've amassed, along with some Technical Pan and ImageLink HQ.

You could certainly try Technidol (if you can find some) or TD-3 to use it at pictorial contrast -- but it would take some experimentation to find times. High Contrast Copy was 6 minutes in D-19, where Technical Pan is 4 minutes in D-19. So you would probably want to use longer times in those other developers for High Contrast Copy than for Technical Pan.

I'm pretty sure that the film ages very slowly!

 

[nworth]

As noted above, D-19 is available in packages. It is for general high contrast use. You can use a print developer like Dektol to give fairly similar results, but you may have to play to find the right exposure and development time combination. For even higher contrast and good definition of fine lines, Kodak D-11 is excellent with this kind of film. With film this old you may (or may not) get some fog or loss of speed. A bit of benzotriazole in the developer may cure the fog. In either case, you will have to bracket to determine the proper exposure. With high contrast film, exposure is often very fussy.

Kodak D-19 high contrast film developer
Water (52C) 750 ml
Metol 2 g
Sodium sulfite (anh) 90 g
Hydroquinone 8 g
Sodium carbonate (mono) 52.5 g
Potassium bromide 5 g
WTM 1 l

Variation: High contrast film developer D-19b (Kodak)
Metol 2.2 g
Sodium sulfite (anh) 72 g
Hydroquinone 8.8 g
sodium carbonate (mono) 58 g
Potassium bromide 4 g
WTM 1 l
Use full strength for microfilm. Develop up to 10 minutes at 20C.

Kodak D-11 film developer
For process and line negatives
Water (52C) 500 ml
Metol 1 g
Sodium sulfite (anh) 75 g
Hydroquinone 9 g
Sodium carbonate (mono) 30 g
Potassium bromide 5 g
WTM 1 l
Develop about 5 minutes in tank or 4 minutes in tray at 20C,
Variation: For less contrast, dilute 1:1.

 

[hoffy]

What would be a good base ISO to use with this (I fully intend to bracket anyway, just don't want to be totally out of the ball park)

 

[Mike Wilde]

If it is like a lot of graphics films, they usually are no faster than 25 in daylight, and that same film may be as low as 6 under tungsten lighting. Don't be surprised if it is as low as 1.5 and needs extra bromide in the developer to suppress fog (and cut effective speed in the process) for old films.

You don't mention if this is 35mm, roll film, or sheet film. If using it in camera, a fast way to test effective EI is to meter a grey card, manually set that exposure, and then expose to shoot a black card, at differing exposures i.e. bracket. If using it in the darkroom, then place a projection print scale over it and expose under the enlarger for a minute to get a starting point.

I have a dollar store kids chalk board in a little wooden frame for just this purpose when testing new to me expired film in the camera. I use the included chalk to write the exposure used on it for each shot as I take them, to minimize the note taking.

The effective EI will be the first one where the black section of the scene has density that is just darker than film base plus fog areas of the film that saw no light. This effective EI on black parts of the subject is mostly developer and development time independent.

Look up the late Barry Thornton's web site, personal exposure index tab, for a more eloquent explanation. Once the effective EI is figured out then work on the highlight exposure, and figure out how long to develop to get a neg of a density to suits your needs. Barry's site calls that personal development time, as I recall.