Multiple Toning of Kallitype

Discussion in 'Hand Coated Wet Prints' started by Janosch Simon, Feb 1, 2018.

  1. Janosch Simon

    Janosch Simon Member

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    Hello together :smile:
    i made first tests with an Palladium Toner and Gold Boarx toner and at the moment i like the pure Kallitype tone (developed in Sodium citrate) the best :smile:

    so i would like to tone with multiple toners to get that tone of the Kallitype but more permanent :smile:

    what would be the best approach?mix the toners upfront or tone first with toner a and then toner b?

    cheers and thx janosch
     
  2. Mainecoonmaniac

    Mainecoonmaniac Subscriber

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    My experience with Kallitypes is limited. What I've heard what can shorten the life of a Kalitype is not necessarily from the lack of toning, but the iron in the ferric oxalate. If the iron is not cleared, it may attack the silver on the print. Based on that knowledge, what I would do is do a good job clearing and fixing the print before toning it. Maybe other folks can correct me if I'm wrong.
     
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    Janosch Simon

    Janosch Simon Member

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    ney :smile: toneing is done after clearin with citirc acid 3% solution then toned and after toning fixed :smile: i try some toner but at the moment like the stock stone with sodium acetat best :smile:
    will do a test with gold and palladium :smile: cheers janosch
     
  4. Mainecoonmaniac

    Mainecoonmaniac Subscriber

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    I'm still learning to do Kallitypes. One thing I find counter-intuitive is toning after development but it works! When I first started doing Kallitypes, I made the mistake of using rapid fix instead of plain sodium thiosulfite. My prints when I fixed them, got bleached. I currently tone my Kallitypes of Bostick and Sullivan gold toner. I have to watch the print as it tones. But as the toners gets exhausted, you can replenish it instead of tossing it. But this article is very helpful.
    https://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Kallitype/kallitype.html

    Cheers to you too! Post some of your prints.
     
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    Janosch Simon

    Janosch Simon Member

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  6. Herzeleid

    Herzeleid Member

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    Janosch,

    I will convey my experience with gold toners, and kalitype clearing. I haven't toned any of my kalitypes because I find that they are not cleared effectively. I will try EDTA soon, I hope that works better.
    The longevity of kalitype depends on the removal of iron salts, not entirely on noble metal toning. I wouldn't count on citric acid to completely clear the prints.
    The ideal thing to do is to make a border around the negative, so it will mask the edges of the print.You can use ink, rubylith tape is more effective or 120 film backing will perfectly mask the edges.
    You will not see the brushed edges in the final print, but if the print is not cleared you will see that the paper is not completely white.

    Equally important, the habit of masking the edges of the negatives is also beneficial when toning with noble metals. You will not have unnecessary dmax areas that would consume the most gold or pd of your toner.

    All gold toners will result in cooler tones, except for Nelson's gold toner but that would bleach the print so overexposure is essential.
    I am not a big fan of gold borax, it is not convenient to prepare immediately and does not have a good shelf life. If you increase the amount of gold, or toning duration it will tone to bluish or purple brown tones.
    Clerc's Thiourea toner keeps perfectly well, tones blue to neutral tones. Lawless' Thiourea toner keeps perfectly well, tones purplish brown tones.
    Thiourea toners will start working on highlights and shadows equally. Gold-Sodium bicarbonate toner can be prepared quickly does not keep well, tones to cold dark brown tones.
    I prepare all my toners one shot, 25 ml for an 8x10 print.

    Pd is the way to go for warmer tones. Palladium toning after gold toning will give split tones.

    Regards
     
  7. Mainecoonmaniac

    Mainecoonmaniac Subscriber

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    Thanks Sedar! Valuable information for a beginner. I'm copying your response to Evernote.
     
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    Janosch Simon

    Janosch Simon Member

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    yeah nice points serdar :smile: gold borax i also dont love its soooooo warm :D today i made the linerarsiation for palladium love the neutral tone :smile: if i want to warm that a tine bit what would be the order? first palladium then gold borax? or which one would you take for getting a little warmer? :smile:

    cheers and thx janosch
     
  9. Herzeleid

    Herzeleid Member

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    I haven't used pd toner, but I recall seeing pd toned argyrotype prints. They looked warm in color but argyrotype prints are natively sulfite toned.
    Thiourea gold toners are also a combination of sulfite and gold toning.
    I don't know in which order you would get warmer tones with pd and gold combination.
    If you can, I highly recommend that you try thiourea gold toners. I have tried 13 different alkali and acid gold toners, thiourea toners are simply perfect.
    These documents might have additional toner formulas or ideas for color control.
    The chemistry of photography, toning chapter, Harrison.
    Hassluck, Toning with gold and platinum.

    Regards
     
  10. Herzeleid

    Herzeleid Member

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    My pleasure. I am a beginner with kallitypes myself, I cannot say that I have ironed out the important issues. Clearing is critical, toning is somewhat simple to accomplish on a clear and stable print.
    I personally prefer argyrotypes, but kallitypes can accommodate less dense in camera negatives.
     
  11. NedL

    NedL Subscriber

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    Harrison is available here or here.
    Hasluck is attached.
     

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  12. Herzeleid

    Herzeleid Member

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    Thanks Ned. :smile:
    When I looked at the formulas in Harrison's, I recalled Potassium Carbonate-Gold toner gives typical brown color of salt prints.
    I have tested some of these formulas with salt prints.I have to find the prints that I have toned with potassium carbonate.
    IMO, Calcium chloride toners are insignificant not worth the effort. Some of the formulas in these documents produce similar looks.
    Borax, Sodium Bicarbonate, Potassium carbonate, Lawless' thiourea Clerc's thiourea also Kodak GP-2 (blue) toners produce distinct results, that is my experience with them.
     
  13. NedL

    NedL Subscriber

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    I've never made a kallitype, so no experience to add, but a side note. Yesterday I was looking for something in my closet and happened across a stack of Namias' sepiaprints I made about 2 years ago ( these are like VDB but with citric instead of tartaric acid ). The prints were in the dark, and underneath some books, so somewhat protected from air too. The ones that were gold toned still look just like when I made them, but the ones that were not toned have faded a lot. I'm somewhat fanatical about washing, so I'm sure I followed the instructions and then washed for at least an hour, and probably more.

    Serdar, thanks for the list, that's very useful to have a list of toners that give distinct results. I've written it down in my salt printing notebook. Perhaps gold thiocyanate toner should be added to the list, it is a distinct result with salt. I got the ingredients for Clerc's toner after hearing how much you liked it, and am happy to see Lawless' toner is similar but just needs some citric acid ( I don't have sodium sulfate to make GP-2). I haven't tried any gold-thiourea toners yet, but am looking forward to it.

    I tried platinum toner for the first time last weekend. Initial cost of potassium chloroplatinate is high, but the cost per print is small, maybe even less than gold. I made enough toner for 1 print, and made it at the weakest level the recipe suggested ( 7 drops of 2% solution for a 7x11 inch image area ) and I was surprised how active it was... had to keep a close eye on it to avoid going too far.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
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    Janosch Simon

    Janosch Simon Member

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    i have sandy kings gold toner #2 mixed
    1% gold chloride 50ml
    1% thiourea 50ml
    Tartaric acid 0.5g
    Distilled water to make1000ml

    is that the one your talking about?
    will make a test tomorrow with first gold and then gold borax and the other way around :smile:
    that harrison book is great thx ned
     
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    Janosch Simon

    Janosch Simon Member

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    here is my latest print which im VERY happy with its nearly perfect :smile: the right one has way to much contrast for this i made a special linearsiation with an palladium toned 121 step target i use the profiling system from www.bwmastery.com its an excel sheet that you feed with measurements from step charts and it outputs the quad file for quadtonerip https://www.bwmastery.com/blog/2017/the-best-quadtone-rip-digital-negative-system-period i have then printed the inverted digital file from the A7R on fixxons foil with ink from cape fear press for the epson 1500w you have to see the left print in person its amazing :smile:)) i tonted it with palladium recipe from sandy king . developer was only sodium citritate fixer i also used from sandy king :smile: his formulas work perfect for me :smile: the negativ was exposed with an 575w hmi spot for around 8 minute i build a "dosimeter" which counts the uv and a smal relais stops after 78000 units :smile:
    IMG_2838.jpg
     
  16. Herzeleid

    Herzeleid Member

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    That looks similar to Clerc's thiourea toner except this one has no sodium chloride.
     
  17. Tom Taylor

    Tom Taylor Member

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    I toned this Kallitype for 22 minutes with the B&S gold-ammonium thiocynate toner given in the Christopher book:

    [​IMG]

    It's a little tricky mixing from scratch so what I do is premix 250mL of stock Part A and if the image appears promising after the development and clearing stages, mix a working solution of Parts A&B with the print soaking in water. Stock solutions of the toner have long shelf life but short when combined.

    I shot this negative in 2013 to make a salt print but for some reason never printed it until last weekend.

    Thomas.
     
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