Multi-spot exposure meter on camera challenge

[superflash]

In this discussion I would like to make a comparison between the multi-spot exposure systems present in 35mm cameras.
What do you think is the best, what are the advantages and disadvantages of one over the other?
If you have experience on this, this is an opportunity to confront us.

I remind you which are the 35mm cameras with multi-spot:
1) Olympus OM3 and 4
2) Canon F1new with S-type focusing screens
3) Canon EOS1V
4) Minolta Multi Spot Memory Card for Dynax / Maxxum high-end SLRs of the i, xi and si series

Here's to you

 

[superflash]

Sorry I made a writing mistake:
2) isn't Canon F1 but T90

 

[Sirius Glass]

Nikon F100 among others

 

[Paul Howell]

I have a Minolta 9Si didn't know that there was a multi spot card. Of the bodies mentioned I also had a T90, in terms of day to day use, the 9si would be on the bottom of my list.

 

[superflash]

Sirius Glass:
F100?
How do you activate the multi-spot on the F100?
What page is explained in the manual?
https://www.cameramanuals.org/nikon_pdf/nikon_f100.pdf

 

[superflash]

Paul Howell:
yes, you can insert the multi spot memory card in your 9xi and thus have the possibility to store up to 8 readings and average them.

 

[wiltw]

Since I think Olympus got this ball rolling, let us start with a list of the features of the OM-4/OM-3 metering system, and then additional folks can jump in with what is better/worse on some of the other models in the list.

Olympus OM-4, 1983

1. Spot size: Center area where focus aid is positioned
2. exposure range: -5EV to 19EV, spot mode EV - 19EV
3. Spot averaging: averages up to 8 readings
4. Spot reading includes Shadow/Highlite bias reading
5. OTF exposure reads & adjusts during actual exposure

 

[Les Sarile]

I have the OM3, OM4, EOS1V and EOS3 and they all have multi spot. Very helpful until I learned the exposure range of the films I use and then I only need a single spot and know what I will be able to get in the results. Of course with the great latitude of most all color negative and b&w films, it's near impossible not to get the exposure right. More critical with slide film as you definitely need to get what's important in the scene properly exposed and everything else falls where they may.

Incidentally, when you use most color negative or b&w films and you get results back from the minilab with blown out highlights - other then sun in frame, chances are their autoxposure is the problem.

 

[koraks]

When uing my t90 (which is rare, I admit) I greatly appreciate its multi spot functionality especially when shooting slides, but also for negatives. It gives me an impression and more control over what ends up where on the film curve. The end result is not necessarily better than with a single measurement approach, of course, but I find it quite intuitive to determine exposure corrections this way. It's a great feature that I'd have love to have on other bodies as well.

 

[superflash]

wiltw:
thank you for details. Among all the cameras mentioned, the OM3 has a particularity: it is the only mechanical camera in the world with multi-spot (which however works with batteries).

I add the diameter of the measuring area and the percentage with respect to the area covered by the viewfinder:

OM3/4: 4,7mm - 2%
EOS1V and 3: 5,1mm - 2,4%
T90: 5,45mm - 2,7%
Minolta MS card: 5,5mm - 2,8%

 

[superflash]

Les Sarile:
I fully agree with your opinion: first of all it is important to have full control of the development for the negatives while for slides it is necessary to analize well how the laboratory develops them.
I have a question for you: when you take measures with OM3/4, is it possible put all (up to 8) on the measuring scale at bottom of wievfinder or every time meter read a value appears only the first value and the average value?

 

[M-88]

I think that OM-3/4 and EOS 1V are the only cameras that can do multi-spot "out of the box" and that is also an advantage. But it's a niche feature now and perhaps it was like that in the past as well.

---------------------

As a side note, I'd like to point out that Minolta 9000 can also do multi-spot metering if used with proprietary "Program Back Super 9000".

 

[superflash]

koraks: thank you.
T90 has a very useful feature: the presets for the high and low lights are not fixed but variable and can be chosen between +/- 4EV with respect to the measured value which allows the photographer to be better oriented in the choice by defining and viewing the amplitude of the exposure latitude of the film on the right scale. But when you make many measurements (example 8) is the scale (which has 1/2 ev steps) too crowded with the indicator arrows?

 

[koraks]

think that OM-3/4 and EOS 1V are the only cameras that can do multi-spot "out of the box" and that is also an advantage.

In the t90 it is also a standard feature.

@superflash: identical measurement points will be overlayed on top of each other and using several (>3 or 4) measurement points can indeed make the little bar very crowded. I usually only use 3 points: an important midtone, the most essential shadows and a highlight that I want to have good tone/detail in. Sometimes I add a 4th for an extreme value that I am willing to sacrifice so it gives me a sort of exposure box within which I can choose a good compromise.

 

[superflash]

Koraks:
Excellent way to proceed. But on the bottom bar what are the steps between an ev value and the next? 1/2 or 1/3?

 

[koraks]

Half stops. Note that it's on the right hand side of the viewfinder, not at the bottom as in EOS slr's.

 

[Paul Howell]

Paul Howell:
yes, you can insert the multi spot memory card in your 9xi and thus have the possibility to store up to 8 readings and average them.

Not sure why that's any different from a good matrix meter, which is why Minolta dropped the feature with the 9 and 7.

 

[Bill Burk]

Since I think Olympus got this ball rolling, let us start with a list of the features of the OM-4/OM-3 metering system, and then additional folks can jump in with what is better/worse on some of the other models in the list.

Olympus OM-4, 1983

1. Spot size: Center area where focus aid is positioned
2. exposure range: -5EV to 19EV, spot mode EV - 19EV
3. Spot averaging: averages up to 8 readings
4. Spot reading includes Shadow/Highlite bias reading
5. OTF exposure reads & adjusts during actual exposure

#5 is inactive when a spot or multi-spot reading has been taken.
I always find multispot inconvenient because I have to pick spots that represent the average. If I want to give emphasis to a tone I might click twice on that tone. But I am not giving the correct exposure. Spot-shadow and spot-highlight are useful but not configurable...

And don’t forget to lock or your reading is cleared with the shutter release

 

[superflash]

M-88:
Minolta Program Back Super 9000 (only for 9000) it is a very useful accessory which, if well used, allows to have the zonal system on the back of the camera. In fact, there are references for the latitude of the pose, it is possible to store, place and modify the readings on the display in various ways both taken from the exposure measurements and by averaging, there are also 2 (fixed) presets for high lights and shadows. The advantage of the display system is given by the fact that the graph represents the readings in terms of stops and it is possible to put a value in the area of the average tone represented by 0 on the scale; moreover the scale varies from -7ev to 6ev with respect to 0, therefore it is possible to have readings in particularly contrasting scenes at a glance.

Do any of you use or have used this system?

 

[superflash]

Koraks:
thanks. The only limitation are the presets because they are fixed while in the T90 they can be changed.

 

[superflash]

Pail Howell:
the multi spot is a completely different exposure system from the matrix, it is the opposite: while the matrix tries to provide the most correct exposure to use for shooting, the multi spot offers complete control of the scene and the possibility of previewing the shot , but does not give the solution which instead must be decided only and exclusively by the photographer with his own brain.

Only the latest generation of Minolta (alpha) does not allow the multi spot while those of previous generations (high-end) have this possibility with an external card or with a dedicated back.

 

[superflash]

Bill Burk:
the ability of those who work with silent spots lies in the ability to place readings well on the scale, in the right areas. We need to clearly identify the medium tone on the scene and know what the limits and potentials of the film in use are.

 

[138S]

the multi-spot exposure systems present in 35mm cameras.

By a wide margin, best meter in 35mm is the one in Nikon F5 and F6.

3D Matrix, 1005 RGB segments covering all screen.

A Neural Network decides exposure from scene interpretation and from film latitude taken from DX code.

That Neural Network was trained with lots of sample photographs. It never fails, it never doubts. In many systems exposure oscilates with an slight change in ther framing, but that one delivers an stable reading because it comes from scene interpretation and not from raw averages.

It "knows" what kind of subjects are there: snow, sky, water, vegetation, human skin... and it does what a proficient photographer would do in general. Of course we may want a different creative exposure, for the rest it never fails.

RGB reading also knows if an individual channel is saturating or not for color film.

The amazing thing is that this was in the market by 1996. Single problem is that with manual lenses it only works Center-weighted or Spot.

In center-weighted it has selectable diameter, and AF-zone-coupled spot.

 

[BradS]

I'm thinking the Nikon FA has matrix metering does that count?

The CLC metering scheme in the Minolta SRT-101 and friends is kinda like multi-spot...

 

[M-88]

M-88:
Minolta Program Back Super 9000 (only for 9000) it is a very useful accessory which, if well used, allows to have the zonal system on the back of the camera. In fact, there are references for the latitude of the pose, it is possible to store, place and modify the readings on the display in various ways both taken from the exposure measurements and by averaging, there are also 2 (fixed) presets for high lights and shadows. The advantage of the display system is given by the fact that the graph represents the readings in terms of stops and it is possible to put a value in the area of the average tone represented by 0 on the scale; moreover the scale varies from -7ev to 6ev with respect to 0, therefore it is possible to have readings in particularly contrasting scenes at a glance.

Do any of you use or have used this system?

I'm too young to have witnessed the release of the 9000 back in the eighties and I got my 9000 for 13$. As for the PBS 9000, it costs five times more than that and obviously I just never had a chance to afford it, nor I saw the reason, because multispot on OM-4 is so streamlined and intuitive as opposed to what Minolta has (and I do have Olympus system). PBS 9000 was probably too advanced for its time, because it has plenty of featuers, but control over them is implemented in an extremely poor way.